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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Help needed identifying mystery feature, and who to report finds to - Galloway |
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spencer 3071 posts |
Edited Oct 09, 2015, 04:24
Oct 09, 2015, 04:12
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| While visiting a site identified as a dun by the OS and Canmore on the west Galloway coast I did some extensive fieldwork in the vicinity, and, as well a finding an additional worn but visible with care three bank fort for which I have found no entry whatsoever, standing on its uppermost rampart I also saw a very strange feature nearby, the remnants of three rings of stones, one inside the other. None of the stones was bigger than a foot across, the innermost ring having most stones visible, approximately half, these being almost flush with the turf and equally spaced, one pace apart. By pacing round the circumference of this inner circle and stamping my feet while doing so I was able to establish that the non visible stones seemed to be present, buried below the turf. This gave a total of approximately sixteen stones and a circumference of the inner circle of approximately forty eight feet, based on the length of my paces. The remains of the middle ring of stones was roughly four feet out from the inner, and the outer a further four feetish out. I really haven't a clue what this obviously very old feature is - does anyone? Should I report it and the fort to an official body for further inspection and if so, who? I will be uploading pictures of both at the same time as when I make a new entry for the dun on TMA.. it doesn't have one yet. Separately, on another part of Galloway's North Rhins coast, while battling through unfenced rough ground which had recently had its venerable gorse cover blitzed by a digger I found a slightly raised area and on one side of it the digger had exposed some stonework which retained an earth cap. A subsequent visit to the (fab) Caves of Kilhern - on TMA - made me wonder if this was something similar, but intact. It certainly looked extremely old and not a product of any clearances. I did not ascertain who the landowner was at the time. Should I report this for evaluation or just keep schtum, and, once again, if yes, do, to whom? I readily confess to inexperience and do not want to send anyone on a wild goose chase, nor, indeed, wind up the landowner of the latter possible site - but fear for its future if the digger returns - and confess I am totally out of my comfort zone with these finds. I have also found what I am totally, totally, convinced are further in situ stones related to the Wren's Egg site near Monreith - on TMA, which do not appear to have been recorded, and a stone with runes on it - yes, I know these are not within TMA's remit - near the same site. Quite a trip, but .... help!!!!! Please!!!! | |||
thesweetcheat 6214 posts |
Oct 09, 2015, 07:08
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Canmap is a good place to start, but I hadn't realised they've added a login - it used to open directly. http://canmore.org.uk/site/search/result?SITECOUNTRY=1&view=map
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spencer 3071 posts |
Oct 09, 2015, 10:53
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Ta, will try. While at the site, metaphorically beardstroking the mysterious circle's purpose the most feasible reason I mused was that a cairn site had been ceremonialy mapped out, but for some reason had not been followed through with. There was no evidence of soil or stone material being scraped away to reveal this feature.
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spencer 3071 posts |
Edited Nov 05, 2015, 01:18
Nov 05, 2015, 00:26
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A repeat plea re the circle within a circle within a circle I've found - apparently the technical term is a concentric circle. I know that there are examples of upright stone circles in UK with this formation, but does anyone know of another site where the stones are small and do not protrude out of the turf by more than a few inches? Any idea of the purpose of these circles, whatever the size of their components? The one I have found is overlooked on its eastward side by a rock outcrop - with an also it seems similarily unrecorded degraded triple bank fort surrounding it - and therefore does not have a complete view of the night sky. I would like to add this site to TMA for comment, and have photographs. Regards, Puzzled of Sheffield.
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thesweetcheat 6214 posts |
Nov 05, 2015, 07:04
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There are examples of cairns with inner and outer kerbs that have become so degraded that the kerb is all that's left, giving the effect of concentric circles (trying to recall where I've seen this but early morning brain not working). Are the stones contiguous?
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Nov 05, 2015, 08:20
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spencer wrote: A repeat plea re the circle within a circle within a circle I've found - apparently the technical term is a concentric circle. I know that there are examples of upright stone circles in UK with this formation, but does anyone know of another site where the stones are small and do not protrude out of the turf by more than a few inches? Any idea of the purpose of these circles, whatever the size of their components? The one I have found is overlooked on its eastward side by a rock outcrop - with an also it seems similarily unrecorded degraded triple bank fort surrounding it - and therefore does not have a complete view of the night sky. I would like to add this site to TMA for comment, and have photographs. Regards, Puzzled of Sheffield. What diameter are we talking about here Spencer only I was thinking a possible ruined Platform Cairn. We have them here on Craddock Moor nearby the actual circle.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Nov 05, 2015, 08:34
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The basic architecture of many circular monuments from simple cairn to passage grave is that of concentric circles (sometimes penannular which can appear concentric ) sometimes including wood , usually evident after excavation or in degraded cases as TSC says .There are also cases of multiple period monuments maintaining the circularity i.e. monuments within monuments . Beaghmore is worth a look . If you can’t add a site ,give us a site name and grid ref and I’ll do it . Or add the pics to a nearby site and they can be shifted to the new one later .
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spencer 3071 posts |
Nov 05, 2015, 15:19
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Thanks for the Bearghmore suggestion. The diminutive nature of some of the visible stones noted, though, unlike there, I don't think that the stones at my fresh site have sunk into peat reducing their stature, but only excavation would confirm this. I submitted a nearby site, Crammag Head Dun, to TMA Eds in early hours and am waiting for the OK on it, I intend to submit this site under a different name as there's also an additional feature cum site for Crammag that I've yet to submit, and, besides which the name Crammag Head is not known locally. Re TMA's 'type of site' part of the adding a new site process, based on what I've written, what is your opinion the most appropriate category definition of this feature - stone circle, rock art, sacred site or something else? I must admit I'm out of my depth here. I've found two recent good quality aerial photos of Crammag Head which shows the three bank fort I've found lurking in the gorse nearby - it bears constructional similarities to Core Hill, a new site I've just added to TMA (fieldnotes to follow so Canmore it) a few miles away - and the res of one image may be good enough to show the exposed part of the adjacent circular feature on a computer screen - my smartphone isn't quite good enough for this. Should Crammag and/or these fresh sites be accepted by Eds I will set up a link to these aerial images, as they will be a good start. As stated in my reply to TMA Eds, I have tech issues with SD cards and phone memory and reinsertion of cards into my phone may cause it to crash - this has happened before. I have a backlog of fieldnotes and other fresh sites to enter and would rather get these sorted and up before uploading my images as otherwise I may end up 'net mute'. Rest assured I've got pics aplenty. Should my entries be declined I'll give you eight digit grid refs so you can have a go, and also aerial pic links. Yes, I'm keen for other more experienced eyes, such as the likes of 'locallish(?)' folk as yourself or Howburn Digger to see and form an opinion about my discoveries.. I've found further interesting things fieldwalking in the vicinity of Wren's Egg and Nest too.
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spencer 3071 posts |
Nov 05, 2015, 15:38
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I reckon the outer ring of the three is about twenty foot or so across. As stated initially, I reckon the circumference of the inner circle, which has the most stones exposed, and what I was surprised to find at my feet, to be in the mid forty feet, comprising fifteen or sixteen stones very regularily spaced. The middle circle about four feet out from that, and the outer circle a further four feetish out. You do the math - sorry, not my forte. Without a tape measure all I could do was pace as best I could. I must confess I'd love to expose all extant stones of this 'whateveritis' as you have done down your way...someone should, imo, or at least get a load of canes and do an accurate turf prod and measure.
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Nov 05, 2015, 16:01
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spencer wrote: I reckon the outer ring of the three is about twenty foot or so across. As stated initially, I reckon the circumference of the inner circle, which has the most stones exposed, and what I was surprised to find at my feet, to be in the mid forty feet, comprising fifteen or sixteen stones very regularily spaced. The middle circle about four feet out from that, and the outer circle a further four feetish out. You do the math - sorry, not my forte. Without a tape measure all I could do was pace as best I could. I must confess I'd love to expose all extant stones of this 'whateveritis' as you have done down your way...someone should, imo, or at least get a load of canes and do an accurate turf prod and measure. Sorry, I thought you meant there were two circles, an outer one and a smaller one inside of that. On Craddock moor we have some platform cairns with an outer stone ring which would have originally been around 2ft high and flatly in-filled. On some there is a second smaller ring to the central area but over the years, they have been seriously destroyed by 'tomb-raiders' digging into them. This has resulted in them flattening out with just the stone surrounds just poking up out of the peat based soil.
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