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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Conclusions...Stone circles, are we learning much? |
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Nov 04, 2013, 18:36
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Sanctuary wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: Something we have learned only relatively recently, and which seems hugely important regarding what we know about stone circles, is the geophysical survey at Stanton Drew. If those pits held posts, they were huge, and there were 9 rings of them! Similarities with Woodhenge & Durrington, but what does it mean? Did the majority of circles start as wooden structures? Have surveys of that type been carried out at any other large circles? Pits were also found in the centre of the NE circle at Stanton Drew, but seem to have been interpreted as possible further stone pits rather than posts. Alex Gibson reckoned that when timber circles are a feature of a developing monument they are usually earlier , not always the case , but a useful heuristic . Other stone circles with earlier TC 's , Sanctuary ,Moncrieffe ,Machrie Moor .Henges seem to have as many TC's as Sc's . Worth mentioning that grooved ware is often associated with TC 's . I always thought that was pretty much a given George. It seems a natural progression doesn't it. Roy , but it was not always the case ,e.g. Croft Moraig and there are also the possibilities of use of both contemporaneously e.g. Mt Pleasant . Woodhenge also had sarsens and they may have been been earlier if not contemporary with the posts .
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Nov 04, 2013, 18:41
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jonmor wrote: "Alex Gibson reckoned that when timber circles are a feature of a developing monument they are usually earlier , not always the case , but a useful heuristic " Seems entirely reasonable, but timber is easier to work so not sure that it would be much of a heuristic help because it would apply to any solution? On subject of possible solutions, today sent a package to the people who run the other monument set we discussed (at their request): Was in that country last week but didn't get the chance to go over to them. This time round I think I'll only write it up fully if they're interested (but will copy you in if/when done). All the best G Jon Jon , the heuristic was just wood precedes stone when both found in the same monument useful but not always the case . I have decrypted the majority of the next para , I think , did you enjoy the bus trip and the rock art ? Please do , look forward to it .
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Nov 04, 2013, 18:46
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: Something we have learned only relatively recently, and which seems hugely important regarding what we know about stone circles, is the geophysical survey at Stanton Drew. If those pits held posts, they were huge, and there were 9 rings of them! Similarities with Woodhenge & Durrington, but what does it mean? Did the majority of circles start as wooden structures? Have surveys of that type been carried out at any other large circles? Pits were also found in the centre of the NE circle at Stanton Drew, but seem to have been interpreted as possible further stone pits rather than posts. Alex Gibson reckoned that when timber circles are a feature of a developing monument they are usually earlier , not always the case , but a useful heuristic . Other stone circles with earlier TC 's , Sanctuary ,Moncrieffe ,Machrie Moor .Henges seem to have as many TC's as Sc's . Worth mentioning that grooved ware is often associated with TC 's . V interesting re grooved ware. I seem to have read over the years, about a number of different sites, stones 'ended' the activity, almost like the final act at the end of a sites life. A 'sealing off' for want of a better expression. Nice and tidy re the obvious wood/life, stone/death thing but i doubt it was ever that simple! E.D. , it's around 30% iirc re.the GW ,but mostly henges . Yes a bit too convenient , but the more recent "decomissioning " info has been a fine addition to "think with " .
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jonmor 150 posts |
Nov 04, 2013, 19:06
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Hi George "did you enjoy the bus trip and the rock art ?" Would have done if I'd managed to get there! Unfortunately events took another turn. Managed to miss all the storms (we had warm weather and sunshine) but got back to a bit of a mess in the garden.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Nov 04, 2013, 19:14
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jonmor wrote: Hi George "did you enjoy the bus trip and the rock art ?" Would have done if I'd managed to get there! Unfortunately events took another turn. Managed to miss all the storms (we had warm weather and sunshine) but got back to a bit of a mess in the garden. Ahhh , so much for my decryption . Museums in Baile Atha Cliath ?
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jonmor 150 posts |
Nov 04, 2013, 19:45
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Hi George. You got it right first time: I had arranged with them to drop in a few months back, but got stuck down south. I guess they'll only let me into the really interesting bit if they're interested in the overall concept (and I've seen the rest already so the trip would only have been to say hello).
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Edited Nov 04, 2013, 20:34
Nov 04, 2013, 20:33
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jonmor wrote: Hi George. You got it right first time: I had arranged with them to drop in a few months back, but got stuck down south. I guess they'll only let me into the really interesting bit if they're interested in the overall concept (and I've seen the rest already so the trip would only have been to say hello). Phew , back to the decryption , sounds more like "Northand " or "handto " in Neolithic rhyming slang ?
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Edited Nov 05, 2013, 11:13
Nov 05, 2013, 11:09
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tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: Something we have learned only relatively recently, and which seems hugely important regarding what we know about stone circles, is the geophysical survey at Stanton Drew. If those pits held posts, they were huge, and there were 9 rings of them! Similarities with Woodhenge & Durrington, but what does it mean? Did the majority of circles start as wooden structures? Have surveys of that type been carried out at any other large circles? Pits were also found in the centre of the NE circle at Stanton Drew, but seem to have been interpreted as possible further stone pits rather than posts. Alex Gibson reckoned that when timber circles are a feature of a developing monument they are usually earlier , not always the case , but a useful heuristic . Other stone circles with earlier TC 's , Sanctuary ,Moncrieffe ,Machrie Moor .Henges seem to have as many TC's as Sc's . Worth mentioning that grooved ware is often associated with TC 's . V interesting re grooved ware. I seem to have read over the years, about a number of different sites, stones 'ended' the activity, almost like the final act at the end of a sites life. A 'sealing off' for want of a better expression. Nice and tidy re the obvious wood/life, stone/death thing but i doubt it was ever that simple! E.D. , it's around 30% iirc re.the GW ,but mostly henges . Yes a bit too convenient , but the more recent "decomissioning " info has been a fine addition to "think with " . 'decomissioning', that was the word I was looking for! I don't know if you know or can access the info, but is the grooved ware restricted to pits at henge sites?
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Nov 05, 2013, 11:50
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: Something we have learned only relatively recently, and which seems hugely important regarding what we know about stone circles, is the geophysical survey at Stanton Drew. If those pits held posts, they were huge, and there were 9 rings of them! Similarities with Woodhenge & Durrington, but what does it mean? Did the majority of circles start as wooden structures? Have surveys of that type been carried out at any other large circles? Pits were also found in the centre of the NE circle at Stanton Drew, but seem to have been interpreted as possible further stone pits rather than posts. Alex Gibson reckoned that when timber circles are a feature of a developing monument they are usually earlier , not always the case , but a useful heuristic . Other stone circles with earlier TC 's , Sanctuary ,Moncrieffe ,Machrie Moor .Henges seem to have as many TC's as Sc's . Worth mentioning that grooved ware is often associated with TC 's . V interesting re grooved ware. I seem to have read over the years, about a number of different sites, stones 'ended' the activity, almost like the final act at the end of a sites life. A 'sealing off' for want of a better expression. Nice and tidy re the obvious wood/life, stone/death thing but i doubt it was ever that simple! E.D. , it's around 30% iirc re.the GW ,but mostly henges . Yes a bit too convenient , but the more recent "decomissioning " info has been a fine addition to "think with " . 'decomissioning', that was the word I was looking for! I don't know if you know or can access the info, but is the grooved ware restricted to pits at henge sites? It varies but not always pits e.g. Woodhenge :post holes D-F ( not A-C ) also below bank and in ditch . Mt Pleasant :stone hole and ditch Durrington: in pits but also midden and other contexts .Ballynahatty : pits ,Machrie Moor: refuse pit . Balfarg :ditch Sarn -Y Bryn -Caled: pit . Another factor is that the greater the number of posts the more likely GW is to be associated , as opposed to Peterborough ware .
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Nov 05, 2013, 12:42
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tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: 'decomissioning', that was the word I was looking for! I don't know if you know or can access the info, but is the grooved ware restricted to pits at henge sites? It varies but not always pits e.g. Woodhenge :post holes D-F ( not A-C ) also below bank and in ditch . Mt Pleasant :stone hole and ditch Durrington: in pits but also midden and other contexts .Ballynahatty : pits ,Machrie Moor: refuse pit . Balfarg :ditch Sarn -Y Bryn -Caled: pit . Another factor is that the greater the number of posts the more likely GW is to be associated , as opposed to Peterborough ware . Brilliant, thank you. It makes me wonder if complete pots were found in one context more than others, how many were associated with burials, and whether the woodhenge post holes you mentioned (D-F) had any other specific feature absent from A-C. I could go on asking questions for hours, your answers always bring to mind more possibilities, but hardly fair, I should go and search this stuff out myself. Its just finding the time thats the issue!
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