Wiggy
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Edited Nov 06, 2013, 18:52
Re: Conclusions...Stone circles, are we learning much?
Nov 06, 2013, 18:51
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I'm guessing we can learn a lot from anthropologists working today with people from other cultures/sacred landscapes etc.
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Sanctuary
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Re: [Off topic]
Nov 06, 2013, 18:57
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Littlestone wrote:
Just a personal opinion, but until it can be shown categorically not to work perhaps we could keep a respectful open mind on the subject.
If it works for just one person then that is proof that it works no matter how many it doesn't work for. I have personally seen it work 100% accurately.
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tiompan
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Re: [Off topic]
Nov 06, 2013, 19:17
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Sanctuary wrote: Littlestone wrote:
Just a personal opinion, but until it can be shown categorically not to work perhaps we could keep a respectful open mind on the subject.
If it works for just one person then that is proof that it works no matter how many it doesn't work for. I have personally seen it work 100% accurately.
It is almost impossible to prove a negative .We can't prove that aliens didn't build SH , or the tooth fairy doesn't exist . To argue against either is not being disrespectful . Phrases like like closed / open minded , thinking out of the box, standing to reason , it's only common sense etc are meaningless . When giving an opinion you use your mind to the best of your ability not accept anything and everything without question or ignore the facts , or not reason .
There are countless explantions for something like dowsing "working". Anything that a dowser claims to do can be done by non dowsing means whether "finding " water or anything hidden , people do it all the time and don't attribute it to a special ability .
When put to the test dowers don't perform any better than expected by chance .
Non dowsers find archaeological sites , monuments etc in areas where there has been no recorded or obvious archeological sites , dowsers don't , but are for ever claiming the ability to do so .
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tiompan
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Re: [Off topic]
Nov 06, 2013, 19:38
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Littlestone wrote: tiompan wrote: It's nice to see any hobbyists working with archaeologists , but it doesn't provide any more credibility for dowsing than that of a group of spiritualists diggers would for contacting the "ancestors " .
There are early woodcuts from China showing dowsing and a mid-sixteenth century English print showing miners looking for ore deposits. Elizabeth I had miners from Germany come to England to teach dowsing to their miners.
Efficacy, distribution and history of usage does not categorically ‘prove’ that dowsing works of course but it does show that the practice has been around for a very long time, and right across the world (there are supposed to be cave paintings showing it somewhere).
Just a personal opinion, but until it can be shown categorically not to work perhaps we could keep a respectful open mind on the subject.
The Chinese woodcut does not show what looks like a dowsing rod and I don't believe that there is a description of it from the time suggesting that is what it portrays either .
The early mining treatise written by Agricola De Re Metallica " (1556) does mention dowsing but he is perfectly aware of it's shortcomings e.g. "therefore a miner ,since we think he ouight to be a good and serious man should not make us of an enchanted twig, because if he is prudent and skilled in the natural signs, he understands that a forked stick is of no use to him, for ... there are natural indications of the veins which he can see for himself without the help of twigs. "
I agree , historical usage does not equate with efficacy .
Elizabeth 1 also employed scriers and astrologers ,like dowsing , forms of divination .
The supposed cave painting showing dowsing requires the eye of a lot of faith and much salt .
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thesweetcheat
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Re: [Off topic]
Nov 06, 2013, 20:00
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tiompan wrote: The early mining treatise written by Agricola De Re Metallica " (1556) does mention dowsing but he is perfectly aware of it's shortcomings e.g. "therefore a miner ,since we think he ouight to be a good and serious man should not make us of an enchanted twig, because if he is prudent and skilled in the natural signs, he understands that a forked stick is of no use to him, for ... there are natural indications of the veins which he can see for himself without the help of twigs. "
That's brilliant: "an enchanted twig"!
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tiompan
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Re: [Off topic]
Nov 06, 2013, 20:03
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thesweetcheat wrote: tiompan wrote: The early mining treatise written by Agricola De Re Metallica " (1556) does mention dowsing but he is perfectly aware of it's shortcomings e.g. "therefore a miner ,since we think he ouight to be a good and serious man should not make us of an enchanted twig, because if he is prudent and skilled in the natural signs, he understands that a forked stick is of no use to him, for ... there are natural indications of the veins which he can see for himself without the help of twigs. "
That's brilliant: "an enchanted twig"!
The German word for the dowsing rod is Wünschelrute, which translates as “wishing stick.”
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tiompan
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Re: [Off topic]
Nov 06, 2013, 20:21
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A great favourite .
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/girl-water-diviner
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thesweetcheat
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Re: [Off topic]
Nov 06, 2013, 20:42
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Good to see scepticism over dowsing was rife even at a time when witches were still being routinely burned and half a century before Galileo was persecuted for his views on the earth/sun.
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tiompan
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Re: [Off topic]
Nov 06, 2013, 20:50
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thesweetcheat wrote: Good to see scepticism over dowsing was rife even at a time when witches were still being routinely burned and half a century before Galileo was persecuted for his views on the earth/sun.
Dunno if it was rife , but at least it wasn't just accepted by somebody who knew what he was talking about .
Interstingly Agricola is often referred to positively by dowsers , simply because he mentions it . e.g. "In 1556 Georgius Agricola published his work 'De Re Metallica' which clearly shows dowsing activity in the woodcut therein. One dowser is shown cutting a branch from a tree, whilst two others are shown in the act of dowsing using forked twigs, whilst surrounded by miners digging. " from the British society of Dowsers website , but they never actually provide the damning quotes and there are plenty more .
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nigelswift
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Re: [Off topic]
Nov 06, 2013, 21:02
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tiompan wrote: When put to the test dowers don't perform any better than expected by chance .
#awkward
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