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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
May 25, 2012, 08:58
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Resonox wrote: It was very interesting...I'd like to have been there...not to pour on cold water or scorn...just to see it first hand. Would your friend object to you posting her original drawing and jottings?....I was interested in the burial bit...(though I did find it a bit Derek Acorah in its vagueness, even if a skeleton was to be found there..and it was the wrong sex...and, not saying your friend would claim it but "psychics" when they get something wrong have a pat answer...'The spirits get this wrong sometimes!', 'He had feminine traits!' etc..and after all its a 50/50 chance of being right...would be a turn up if an animal was found though...lol)...However, looking at your picture...it does have a look of similar "corner tombs" in Brittany, where it is suggested that builders of monuments are buried....only suggested mind, I heard a man tell his wife (on Le Petit Train through Carnac) that these were burials of sacrificed "builders"...much the same way that people still put a coin in the corner of a new house(a practice even Romans carried out)...I failed to manage to have a chat with the man afterwards....Sorry waffling on.... It was an interesting attempt to try something out for yourself and whether you believe it or not it still had some interesting results and the original jottings would be equally interesting. Here's the drawing Resonox. https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/20120525DowsersDrawingOfKAH?authkey=Gv1sRgCLjIiIOtweKgDQ#5746370063969634114 To help decipher the writing..... Firstly the N has been added by myself to denote the Northen end of the site. The 'remains' are indicated by her written word and a X, whilst the other two X's are where she said the buried triangular stones would be found. The wording under the drawing says..Covered Hall and Res for reservoir. The NO between them means just that, it was not covered and was not a reservoir! Then there is NO against Cock Fighting (still find that strange) but it was a meeting place for humans! The 3x ledges means it was dug out to bedrock but in shelving form (seating possible?) my words and thoughts not hers. Then the age...just over 6,000 years. When she mentioned the shelving it didn't register at the time but have a look at this photo at something I've noticed. It's taken from the southern end from the trackway in. To the right edge is where the southern banking starts so therefore the beginning of the rectangular 'basin'. Notice how the reeded grass is much taller and thicker there for about a third of the way up the basin and also around the margins but wetter and a different type of weed is showing in the middle to northern area. This indicates to me a shallower end under the reeds with a deeper section further on. The 'shelving' begins to make sense to me now!! https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/ShelvedIdentification?authkey=Gv1sRgCN24-7KE-YiLjAE#5746367706961202018
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
May 25, 2012, 09:02
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Sanctuary wrote: Resonox wrote: It was very interesting...I'd like to have been there...not to pour on cold water or scorn...just to see it first hand. Would your friend object to you posting her original drawing and jottings?....I was interested in the burial bit...(though I did find it a bit Derek Acorah in its vagueness, even if a skeleton was to be found there..and it was the wrong sex...and, not saying your friend would claim it but "psychics" when they get something wrong have a pat answer...'The spirits get this wrong sometimes!', 'He had feminine traits!' etc..and after all its a 50/50 chance of being right...would be a turn up if an animal was found though...lol)...However, looking at your picture...it does have a look of similar "corner tombs" in Brittany, where it is suggested that builders of monuments are buried....only suggested mind, I heard a man tell his wife (on Le Petit Train through Carnac) that these were burials of sacrificed "builders"...much the same way that people still put a coin in the corner of a new house(a practice even Romans carried out)...I failed to manage to have a chat with the man afterwards....Sorry waffling on.... It was an interesting attempt to try something out for yourself and whether you believe it or not it still had some interesting results and the original jottings would be equally interesting. Here's the drawing Resonox. https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/20120525DowsersDrawingOfKAH?authkey=Gv1sRgCLjIiIOtweKgDQ#5746370063969634114 To help decipher the writing..... Firstly the N has been added by myself to denote the Northen end of the site. The 'remains' are indicated by her written word and a X, whilst the other two X's are where she said the buried triangular stones would be found. The wording under the drawing says..Covered Hall and Res for reservoir. The NO between them means just that, it was not covered and was not a reservoir! Then there is NO against Cock Fighting (still find that strange) but it was a meeting place for humans! The 3x ledges means it was dug out to bedrock but in shelving form (seating possible?) my words and thoughts not hers. Then the age...just over 6,000 years. When she mentioned the shelving it didn't register at the time but have a look at this photo at something I've noticed. It's taken from the southern end from the trackway in. To the right edge is where the southern banking starts so therefore the beginning of the rectangular 'basin'. Notice how the reeded grass is much taller and thicker there for about a third of the way up the basin and also around the margins but wetter and a different type of weed is showing in the middle to northern area. This indicates to me a shallower end under the reeds with a deeper section further on. The 'shelving' begins to make sense to me now!! https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/ShelvedIdentification?authkey=Gv1sRgCN24-7KE-YiLjAE#5746367706961202018 Sorry, forgot to mention, but the X to the southern end is what she put on there to indicate where her 'reading' was taken from.
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rockhopper 275 posts |
May 25, 2012, 09:12
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Sanctuary wrote: BuckyE wrote: Sanctuary wrote: Ok, today I revisited King Arthurs Hall, a retangular banked enclosure lined internally with standing stones. Here is an aerial pic I took of most of it... https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/KingArthursHall24thMayAerial?authkey=Gv1sRgCMTV-_Dd7aW8zAE#5746135779312842226 Accompanying me was a dowser friend who had no idea where I was taking her to and had never visited the site before and hadn't even heard of it so it turned out. How do we prove that? Is it impossible your friend never, say, fifteen years ago watched a TV program about "Ancient Mysteries" that included KAH, and has subsequently mostly, but not entirely, forgotten it? Sanctuary wrote: We entered the enclosure and stood on the bank at the southern end. I then asked her if she would dowse for a true equilateral triangular stone and not an isosceles one as they were obviously still standing whilst the former would lie buried somewhere if there. With that she sat down on the bank and drew out a rectangle on a piece of paper she had brought with her. I asked her why she was doing that and she said she would swing a pendulum over it instead of walking around the site. That sort of threw me a bit as I was expecting her to get out her dowsing rods and walk around the stone settings! So, I left her to it and wandered around taking pix and a vid but didn't disturb her. Not intentionally, of course. But is it impossible that she didn't, out of the corner of her eye, and not conciously, notice you looking at certain stones or places? Sanctuary wrote: Half an hour later I noticed she had stopped playing around with the pendant thing so went back to her. She had put various x's on the drawing and some writing underneath it. Firstly, she said there were two tri stones on the eastern flank and both were buried. She had marked their position on the drawing. I asked her how she knew that and the reply back was that she'd been 'told'! Told by who I asked? Her spirit guide was the answer. Yep, that's what I thought :-) I'd asked her nothing else but she went into details of her own. The 'hall' had never been roofed and it was not a reservoir! It had been excavated in three levels and was shelved. She said it was a 'Meeting place for humans and not for Cock Fighting' (where the hell did that come from??). It was just over 6,000 years old and had the remains of a woman in the north east corner that had died during the build. OK, here's where the rubber hits the road. Research all the literature published on the site and confirm that NONE of it mentions multiple levels, cock fighting or a burial. Commision a thorough archaeological dig and confirm that the site was originally on multiple levels and contains a burial in the place predicted. Case for dowsing closed. Sanctuary wrote: That was it, nothing else. Here's a pic of the NE corner... https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/NorthEastGraveArea?authkey=Gv1sRgCKuBsIrU4ZnKVQ#5746139734924285026 So, with trepidation I began my search for the two tri stones. I started looking for the one supposed to be nearer the centre of the eastern flank but gave up because it would be a major excavation job as most of the stones have fallen and are completely buried (oh that was another thing, ALL the original stones are still there apparently!!). So I then moved toward the SE end and immediately spotten the tip of a prostrate stone showing out of the turf. On this photo you will see what was already showing by the contrasting darker discolouration which was where the turf was covering it. I hadn't noticed it two weeks ago when I first visited, but then I wasn't looking! Out came the trowel and after a bit of careful 'gardening' this was the result! https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/KingArthursHall24thMay?authkey=Gv1sRgCLLppZP7uMft6wE#5746134518531336946 I only went back an acceptable amount with the cutting back but as you can see, either a tri stone or the corner of a rectangular stone revealed itself. I ran a probe in alongside both edges where still covered and they continued to be continuing outwards. I'll leave it to you to decide. To me, meaningless. Nice picture of the alleged triangular stone, but of course not proved to be such. And now, no way to prove you didn't spot it before, and she didn't notice you doing that. Oh well. All in all, an interesting experiment illustrating the pitfalls of investigation of paranormal phenomena and the ways they could, potentially, be proved. Thanks immensely for the report! I really hope my cutting in the quoting system works! No way to preview that I know of...::crossing fingers::... As I said you take it or leave it really, I just reported what happened and added nothing. I'm as sceptical as the next person but when you know someone well you get to know whether they are sincere or not. Whatever she 'saw/felt' was genuine for her and I think that's where the problem lies...being on different wavelengths with these people who in everyday life appear to be no different to the rest of us just maybe having something we don't connect to. Perhaps they are no different to everyone else but would like to appear to be. I've followed this with great interest, but still remain unconvinced. The person I watched 'dowse' with a crystal has been a good friend for over 20 years, and someone I would class as sincere in every department. Yet the hand definately caused the crystal to swing. I personally tried to 'dowse' many years ago with hazel rods in a field criss crossed with underground drainage channels. Nothing happened. And as for the bloke being able to say "Water at 120 feet", if he was familiar with the area and the level of the local water table, that would not be difficult to get right. There exists within some people a desire to 'stand out' or be 'different', and claiming special powers is one way of achieving that. And once such a claim is made, it is very difficult to retract without looking utterly ridiculous. It is in areas such as this, where it is very difficult to prove otherwise, that such claims can be made without fear of contradiction.
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
May 25, 2012, 09:41
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rockhopper wrote: Sanctuary wrote: BuckyE wrote: Sanctuary wrote: Ok, today I revisited King Arthurs Hall, a retangular banked enclosure lined internally with standing stones. Here is an aerial pic I took of most of it... https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/KingArthursHall24thMayAerial?authkey=Gv1sRgCMTV-_Dd7aW8zAE#5746135779312842226 Accompanying me was a dowser friend who had no idea where I was taking her to and had never visited the site before and hadn't even heard of it so it turned out. How do we prove that? Is it impossible your friend never, say, fifteen years ago watched a TV program about "Ancient Mysteries" that included KAH, and has subsequently mostly, but not entirely, forgotten it? Sanctuary wrote: We entered the enclosure and stood on the bank at the southern end. I then asked her if she would dowse for a true equilateral triangular stone and not an isosceles one as they were obviously still standing whilst the former would lie buried somewhere if there. With that she sat down on the bank and drew out a rectangle on a piece of paper she had brought with her. I asked her why she was doing that and she said she would swing a pendulum over it instead of walking around the site. That sort of threw me a bit as I was expecting her to get out her dowsing rods and walk around the stone settings! So, I left her to it and wandered around taking pix and a vid but didn't disturb her. Not intentionally, of course. But is it impossible that she didn't, out of the corner of her eye, and not conciously, notice you looking at certain stones or places? Sanctuary wrote: Half an hour later I noticed she had stopped playing around with the pendant thing so went back to her. She had put various x's on the drawing and some writing underneath it. Firstly, she said there were two tri stones on the eastern flank and both were buried. She had marked their position on the drawing. I asked her how she knew that and the reply back was that she'd been 'told'! Told by who I asked? Her spirit guide was the answer. Yep, that's what I thought :-) I'd asked her nothing else but she went into details of her own. The 'hall' had never been roofed and it was not a reservoir! It had been excavated in three levels and was shelved. She said it was a 'Meeting place for humans and not for Cock Fighting' (where the hell did that come from??). It was just over 6,000 years old and had the remains of a woman in the north east corner that had died during the build. OK, here's where the rubber hits the road. Research all the literature published on the site and confirm that NONE of it mentions multiple levels, cock fighting or a burial. Commision a thorough archaeological dig and confirm that the site was originally on multiple levels and contains a burial in the place predicted. Case for dowsing closed. Sanctuary wrote: That was it, nothing else. Here's a pic of the NE corner... https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/NorthEastGraveArea?authkey=Gv1sRgCKuBsIrU4ZnKVQ#5746139734924285026 So, with trepidation I began my search for the two tri stones. I started looking for the one supposed to be nearer the centre of the eastern flank but gave up because it would be a major excavation job as most of the stones have fallen and are completely buried (oh that was another thing, ALL the original stones are still there apparently!!). So I then moved toward the SE end and immediately spotten the tip of a prostrate stone showing out of the turf. On this photo you will see what was already showing by the contrasting darker discolouration which was where the turf was covering it. I hadn't noticed it two weeks ago when I first visited, but then I wasn't looking! Out came the trowel and after a bit of careful 'gardening' this was the result! https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/KingArthursHall24thMay?authkey=Gv1sRgCLLppZP7uMft6wE#5746134518531336946 I only went back an acceptable amount with the cutting back but as you can see, either a tri stone or the corner of a rectangular stone revealed itself. I ran a probe in alongside both edges where still covered and they continued to be continuing outwards. I'll leave it to you to decide. To me, meaningless. Nice picture of the alleged triangular stone, but of course not proved to be such. And now, no way to prove you didn't spot it before, and she didn't notice you doing that. Oh well. All in all, an interesting experiment illustrating the pitfalls of investigation of paranormal phenomena and the ways they could, potentially, be proved. Thanks immensely for the report! I really hope my cutting in the quoting system works! No way to preview that I know of...::crossing fingers::... As I said you take it or leave it really, I just reported what happened and added nothing. I'm as sceptical as the next person but when you know someone well you get to know whether they are sincere or not. Whatever she 'saw/felt' was genuine for her and I think that's where the problem lies...being on different wavelengths with these people who in everyday life appear to be no different to the rest of us just maybe having something we don't connect to. Perhaps they are no different to everyone else but would like to appear to be. I've followed this with great interest, but still remain unconvinced. The person I watched 'dowse' with a crystal has been a good friend for over 20 years, and someone I would class as sincere in every department. Yet the hand definately caused the crystal to swing. I personally tried to 'dowse' many years ago with hazel rods in a field criss crossed with underground drainage channels. Nothing happened. And as for the bloke being able to say "Water at 120 feet", if he was familiar with the area and the level of the local water table, that would not be difficult to get right. There exists within some people a desire to 'stand out' or be 'different', and claiming special powers is one way of achieving that. And once such a claim is made, it is very difficult to retract without looking utterly ridiculous. It is in areas such as this, where it is very difficult to prove otherwise, that such claims can be made without fear of contradiction. That would be the reason why my friend keeps a low prolfile and does not court publicity because of how people would and do view her. She's a quiet soul and not pushy and certainly wouldn't want to 'stand out' as you say. We are what we are.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
May 25, 2012, 10:48
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...if you believe all religious thought is bunk, then internalizing a religion-based nomos is going to lead to Marxian alienation... Don’t ask me, I’m a committed and lifelong atheist with an unshakable belief in god – that’s my nomos and I’m stickin’ to it.
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Astralcat 742 posts |
May 25, 2012, 11:31
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Resonox wrote: Astralcat wrote: It's a tragedy indeed for the brain cell that cannot conceieve beyond it's own knowledge limits - it might as well be in mothballs. (formely known as Sea Cat) All brains do have the capacity for reaching beyond their limits...as they to to dream and imagine beyond the realms of possibility.....but to tether this wild soaring spirit by pretending all goals are restricted by mysterious powers is wrong..imo No limtits, no restrictions. Things as yet not understood are just that, not mysterious powers. Never cease to question and seek.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 25, 2012, 15:19
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"A Ho Chi Minh City research institute has said it cannot make good on its promise to study a girl reportedly with a paranormal ability to set things on fire by being near them, but expressed skepticism about her alleged powers. Du Quang Chau, director of the Energy Dowsing Center at the Hong Bang private university, told Phap Luat Thanh Pho Ho Chi Minh (HCMC Laws) newspaper that the center can no longer study her case. Chau, who studied her briefly, said, however: “I think she burns things to catch people’s attention.” ;) http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20120523-expert-suspects-fire-girl-burns-things-for-attention.aspx
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Resonox 604 posts |
May 25, 2012, 16:01
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I really should visit there...the hills in the background are wonderfully shaped too....nature at its best.
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Resonox 604 posts |
May 25, 2012, 16:16
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Sanctuary wrote: Ok, today I revisited King Arthurs Hall, a retangular banked enclosure lined internally with standing stones. Here is an aerial pic I took of most of it... There are what appear to be quite distinct shapes in the "enclosure"(for want of a better word)...there even appears to be a nice circular "browning" of the grass....as you would get if there was stone under the topsoil not allowing the grass over to get moisture from the earth....without being there is there any chance you have measurements....or did you not see these in situ...sometimes the camera picks up details the eyes miss.
https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/KingArthursHall24thMayAerial?authkey=Gv1sRgCMTV-_Dd7aW8zAE#5746135779312842226
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
May 25, 2012, 18:12
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Resonox wrote: Sanctuary wrote: Ok, today I revisited King Arthurs Hall, a retangular banked enclosure lined internally with standing stones. Here is an aerial pic I took of most of it... There are what appear to be quite distinct shapes in the "enclosure"(for want of a better word)...there even appears to be a nice circular "browning" of the grass....as you would get if there was stone under the topsoil not allowing the grass over to get moisture from the earth....without being there is there any chance you have measurements....or did you not see these in situ...sometimes the camera picks up details the eyes miss.https://picasaweb.google.com/100525707086862773355/KingArthursHall24thMayAerial?authkey=Gv1sRgCMTV-_Dd7aW8zAE#5746135779312842226 On my first visit about three weeks ago I was so amazed at what I was seeing that I didn't really take it all in and I was on my way to see something else anyway. However I did pace it out at 140+ft x 60ft internally. Yesterday, aside from dealing with the dowsing side of things that my friend was doing, I took much more detail. As you enter the site from the SW corner you have stones to the left down the left or western flank. A few are upright, some are partly fallen and sloping whilst a great many are flat and either buried, partly showing or identified by a hump in the grass which is, at the moment because of the dry spell, is brown/yellowish, rather like you are indicating. The stone setting is, on the whole, like this.....a stone followed by a 2ft gap then another stone followed by a 2ft gap and so on. However, on two occasions (maybe more because of the fallen stones) there are two stones together side by side, One taller one and the other maybe a third its height. I suppose you could say the stones visible are quite typical for what I have seen so far in this area of Bodmin Moor i.e. standard rectangular/tall slender/pointy/triangular/sloping tops all in the same manner as they are in the circles and different heights. Nothing is regular, far from it other than the irregular nature of them all generally. I mentioned in another post that Leaze circle does appear to be 'regular' and is within the same area so a researchers dream as to why? Even now in its partly collapsed state you have the bank to the external perimeter with the stones set into the base of it internally and a further 3 or 4ft before the area of ground that has been removed to create the bank begins. This is where most of the fallen stones are lying and covered and you can't help but walk over many of them. The brown looking rough grass/reeded area to the edge of the East and western sides of the dug out area and also the northern side and the southern end in particular suggest to me a different level of depth to the 'bowl'. The dowser spoke of shelving and that would be how I see it as well although it was never discussed between us as it hit me later. The more central northern end has water on the surface and it can just be seen in the photo. The vegetation is completely different there and that must be an indication of deeper initial excavating. I had my shepherds stick with me and the northern and southern ends plus the side margins took three feet of the stick up but closer to the centre area where in was unwise to walk I could have lost it altogether. Both myself and the dowsing lady felt completely comfortable in the 'bowl' as it has a wonderful atmosphere, but I won't go into that as it will be seen as 'imagination'. I shot a HD video which I'll be quite happy to send you a copy off as it explains things, as I see them, as I go along. I intend to keep revisiting the Hall as it is unique I believe in the UK and should be investigated fully IMO.
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