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Sweep
30 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 19, 2012, 21:37
tiompan wrote:
Sensible post Sweep I only slightly disagree on one point /suggestion .
"Nor is there any doubt that people can trace things they don't know are there by other means. " .
Water is one thing but previously unrecorded and unsuspected archaeology is a bit different ,any examples ?


I wasn't entirely clear there. My apologies. I was thinking of cases like the dowser who traced the water main in my earlier example, plus cases such as the one I obvserved in the grounds of Glastonbury Abbey, where someone who'd never dowsed before found and followed a line of earth energy (whatever that is. I've traced it many times but we just have a name for it, not an explanation) which took a meandering course and then entered part of the buildings through a wall near a doorway at an odd angle. I kept well back so as not to influence the young lady who did this.

I've never dowsed archeological remains, which would be very interesting, especially in the case of unknown remains that were subsequently detected. The story in the next person's post to th one quoted is interesting, in which traces were found by dowsing than nothing was there. Such awkward failures need thorough investigation as well as the successes, I think, first to rule out sheer chance with the successes, and second to investigate whether something else was being detected and the fault was with the interpretations of the dowsers and not with the dowsing itself. We're really at a very basic level with investigating this stuff.
tiompan
tiompan
5758 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 19, 2012, 23:32
Sweep wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sensible post Sweep I only slightly disagree on one point /suggestion .
"Nor is there any doubt that people can trace things they don't know are there by other means. " .
Water is one thing but previously unrecorded and unsuspected archaeology is a bit different ,any examples ?


I wasn't entirely clear there. My apologies. I was thinking of cases like the dowser who traced the water main in my earlier example, plus cases such as the one I obvserved in the grounds of Glastonbury Abbey, where someone who'd never dowsed before found and followed a line of earth energy (whatever that is. I've traced it many times but we just have a name for it, not an explanation) which took a meandering course and then entered part of the buildings through a wall near a doorway at an odd angle. I kept well back so as not to influence the young lady who did this.

I've never dowsed archeological remains, which would be very interesting, especially in the case of unknown remains that were subsequently detected. The story in the next person's post to th one quoted is interesting, in which traces were found by dowsing than nothing was there. Such awkward failures need thorough investigation as well as the successes, I think, first to rule out sheer chance with the successes, and second to investigate whether something else was being detected and the fault was with the interpretations of the dowsers and not with the dowsing itself. We're really at a very basic level with investigating this stuff.


Water seems to be have been a common "find " throughout dowsing historically and everything else far more anectdotal , the repeat of experices is interesting , do you think there might be a an association with water with these ?
The investigative route is the only way that we will get any understanding .
Ever tried dowsing over a big bridge like the Humber bridge , in an aeroplane , over landfill etc
Sweep
30 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 20, 2012, 01:04
tiompan wrote:
Sweep wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sensible post Sweep I only slightly disagree on one point /suggestion .
"Nor is there any doubt that people can trace things they don't know are there by other means. " .
Water is one thing but previously unrecorded and unsuspected archaeology is a bit different ,any examples ?


I wasn't entirely clear there. My apologies. I was thinking of cases like the dowser who traced the water main in my earlier example, plus cases such as the one I obvserved in the grounds of Glastonbury Abbey, where someone who'd never dowsed before found and followed a line of earth energy (whatever that is. I've traced it many times but we just have a name for it, not an explanation) which took a meandering course and then entered part of the buildings through a wall near a doorway at an odd angle. I kept well back so as not to influence the young lady who did this.

I've never dowsed archeological remains, which would be very interesting, especially in the case of unknown remains that were subsequently detected. The story in the next person's post to th one quoted is interesting, in which traces were found by dowsing than nothing was there. Such awkward failures need thorough investigation as well as the successes, I think, first to rule out sheer chance with the successes, and second to investigate whether something else was being detected and the fault was with the interpretations of the dowsers and not with the dowsing itself. We're really at a very basic level with investigating this stuff.


Water seems to be have been a common "find " throughout dowsing historically and everything else far more anectdotal , the repeat of experices is interesting , do you think there might be a an association with water with these ?
The investigative route is the only way that we will get any understanding .
Ever tried dowsing over a big bridge like the Humber bridge , in an aeroplane , over landfill etc


I began by dowsing `earth energies' (despite my water company experience, and that's been my main focus. I really need to learn to dowse different things and differentiate much more clearly.

I'm pretty sure the `earth energies' aren't underground water, although Guy Underwood attributed his findings to `blind springs.' I've dowsed some of Underwood's locations (and I'm amazed by his skill when I compare his mappings with what I found), but most of the things I've found don't seem to relate to water. That said, my water knowledge relates more to piped water supplies than to natural water flows. I realise as soon as I consider this how little I know. I only know something works, which is a mere starting point.
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 20, 2012, 07:08
Sweep wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sweep wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sensible post Sweep I only slightly disagree on one point /suggestion .
"Nor is there any doubt that people can trace things they don't know are there by other means. " .
Water is one thing but previously unrecorded and unsuspected archaeology is a bit different ,any examples ?


I wasn't entirely clear there. My apologies. I was thinking of cases like the dowser who traced the water main in my earlier example, plus cases such as the one I obvserved in the grounds of Glastonbury Abbey, where someone who'd never dowsed before found and followed a line of earth energy (whatever that is. I've traced it many times but we just have a name for it, not an explanation) which took a meandering course and then entered part of the buildings through a wall near a doorway at an odd angle. I kept well back so as not to influence the young lady who did this.

I've never dowsed archeological remains, which would be very interesting, especially in the case of unknown remains that were subsequently detected. The story in the next person's post to th one quoted is interesting, in which traces were found by dowsing than nothing was there. Such awkward failures need thorough investigation as well as the successes, I think, first to rule out sheer chance with the successes, and second to investigate whether something else was being detected and the fault was with the interpretations of the dowsers and not with the dowsing itself. We're really at a very basic level with investigating this stuff.


Water seems to be have been a common "find " throughout dowsing historically and everything else far more anectdotal , the repeat of experices is interesting , do you think there might be a an association with water with these ?
The investigative route is the only way that we will get any understanding .
Ever tried dowsing over a big bridge like the Humber bridge , in an aeroplane , over landfill etc


I began by dowsing `earth energies' (despite my water company experience, and that's been my main focus. I really need to learn to dowse different things and differentiate much more clearly.

I'm pretty sure the `earth energies' aren't underground water, although Guy Underwood attributed his findings to `blind springs.' I've dowsed some of Underwood's locations (and I'm amazed by his skill when I compare his mappings with what I found), but most of the things I've found don't seem to relate to water. That said, my water knowledge relates more to piped water supplies than to natural water flows. I realise as soon as I consider this how little I know. I only know something works, which is a mere starting point.


So essentially...you are saying apart from water , nothing has been actually found?....Earth energies has a prosaic ring to it...but still boils down to rods moving and no explanation (as human error is never taken into account) given as to why, so a fancy name has been attributed to what is at the end of the day "nothing there". Most of what you've found doesn't relate to water...what have you found (if it is artefacts and you'd rather not say for fear of villification..fair enough) you still haven't really said, apart from this hint at an unprovable energy....unless rods moving unaccountably is considered irrefutable proof of something. If a deeply religious person (of whatever faith they might hold) were to tell you that this is merely a manifestation of God's Power...can you imagine the scorn they'd get from every quarter...even the church of their choosing.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 20, 2012, 08:01
The one thing that's certain is that rods that move unaccountably" must be reacting to known forces or unknown ones and it's SO frustrating that these debates are ongoing when proper testing would reveal which.
hamish
hamish
179 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 20, 2012, 10:57
ocifant wrote:
I understand some of the dowsing crew believe that one (?) of the stones at Stanton Drew holds an 'energy' that is supposed to be able to cause people to feel as if they've been shoved to the ground. Not heard anything similar for Bodmin though...


Tried this at Stanton Drew, just ended up looking foolish.

H
hamish
hamish
179 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 20, 2012, 10:59
cerrig wrote:
This is the stone in question at Stanton Drew . It's either being scientifically tested for it's throwing ability, or this is Eddie the Eagles legendary secret training camp.

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=88593&orderby=dateD


Yup, that was us.
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 20, 2012, 11:38
Hi hamish – good to see you again.

I remember you saying, at last year’s Megameet in Avebury, that moles would follow the course of an underground stream (or words to that effect I think). Wonder why and how they would do that... after worms I guess would be the reason for following the stream, so maybe they were following the worms rather than the water. Or maybe they were following the (presumably) higher humidity level created by the underground stream. Or maybe they were following ‘currents’ of one sort or another... all interesting stuff.
Sweep
30 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 20, 2012, 17:30
Resonox wrote:
So essentially...you are saying apart from water , nothing has been actually found?....Earth energies has a prosaic ring to it...but still boils down to rods moving and no explanation (as human error is never taken into account) given as to why, so a fancy name has been attributed to what is at the end of the day "nothing there". Most of what you've found doesn't relate to water...what have you found (if it is artefacts and you'd rather not say for fear of villification..fair enough) you still haven't really said, apart from this hint at an unprovable energy....unless rods moving unaccountably is considered irrefutable proof of something. If a deeply religious person (of whatever faith they might hold) were to tell you that this is merely a manifestation of God's Power...can you imagine the scorn they'd get from every quarter...even the church of their choosing.


Well, I wasn't exactly trying to say that, but I can see how what i said could be reduced to that. :D

What happened in fact was that I'd visited Glastonbury and Avebury with a friend in the 90s. I'd read books about earth energies long before (in the 70s) and not been convinced. Other factors (too lengthy to outline here) led me back to the notion of earth energies, and basically I'd found myself sensing certain energies without the use of rods or any other apparatus.

At Avebury I saw dowsing rods for sale and bought a pair. I knew where there was supposed to be an easily locatable energy flow (the Cove) and sent my friend in a line that would cross that flow, to see what would happen. She didn't know what was alleged to be there. She found the rods responding where they would have done according to what I'd heard was there. I then tried the rods - and failed totally. Nothing happend for me at all, totally contrary to expectations and the fact that I knew what should be there. I'd been sensing energies and yet here I was completely failing to get anything.

My friend had been uncertain about the whole thing, but she was getting the results, so we tried again in another part of the Avebury complex where again I knew what was supposed to be there and she didn't - the D feature. I hoped there were too many stones for the presence of stones to give her cues, and I kept well back and as far as possible out of her line of vision. Again, she got the results others had found there.

A couple of days later we were on Wearyall Hill close to the Thorn. I sensed something without using the rods, so I told her that but didn't say where I sensed things. Sure enough she got results with the rods again, just where I'd been sensing things. I tried the rods again, and to my surprise they now worked for me. I'd evidently `tuned' my receptiveness now.

So while, as I've said, I think the term `earth energies' suggests we know something more than in fact we do know, I was sure of the following: I coudl sense the presence of something; another person could independently and unknowingly dowse what I'd sensed and also unknowingly dowse what others had dowsed; so the dowsing seemed to be verifiable and there was a correlation between what I was sensing and what the rods did.

Those experiments got me into all of this. I'd like to use something more tangible than earth energies, but I'm also curious about the energies because I'd already sensed them before using the rods. Subsequent experiments have verified my own findings on previous occasions at the same sites, and the findings of other people, and indepenent people have verified by results while I observed and tried not to influence them. (I'd like to see those findings verified by someone plotting them in my absence, to ensure I couldn't be influencing the other person unconsciously.) The earth energies (whatever they are) are important to me because I sense them and feel stimulated and changed by them, and the fact that they're a mystery interests me. Dowsing is a means to an end with them. But as far as dowsing itself is concerned, I'd like to see a great deal more research, carried out properly with scientific method and relating to a wide range of recognisable materials.
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Trees and stones with powers to throw?
May 20, 2012, 18:06
I really can't continue to cast doubt on your feelings and beliefs without sounding as though I'm denigrating you for them...suffice to say they are your beliefs....and my disbeliefs and I don't think the twain shall meet without ending up as a full scale argument....but I do take your point that someone like me...a self-avowed sceptic...would be as prone to subconciously affecting a tester as much as you might only in a differing direction...it'd be a bit hard to get anyone without feelings on the subject one way or the other to be truly objective. I still won't be convinced unkown, unprovable earth energies exist...if there are rod influencing powers at work they are understandably natural, I know, if I may put words in your mouth(...change and adapt as needed)you'll tell me earth energies are natural too yet you'll say they are not electro-magnetic, sun-spot, gravitational or water-flow affected....So can we say it is God or faeries at work...it is as feasible as any other unprovable reason.
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