goffik
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 20:03
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Rubbish/second rate by whose standards? Modern standards? Neolithic standards? Geologist's standards? Archaeologist's standards? How does anyone know why the stones were chosen and what criteria was used?
G x
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Pete G
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 20:34
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you can read all about it in The Blue Stone Enigma!
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tonyh
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 20:43
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goffik wrote: Rubbish/second rate by whose standards? Modern standards? Neolithic standards? Geologist's standards? Archaeologist's standards? How does anyone know why the stones were chosen and what criteria was used?
G x
Good point..
I think We should wonder why Neolithic Man would transport to Salisbury Plain - Blue Stone from 5 or 6 differant outcrops of stone in Wales..
Tony
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tonyh
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 26, 2009, 13:05
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tonyh wrote: goffik wrote: Rubbish/second rate by whose standards? Modern standards? Neolithic standards? Geologist's standards? Archaeologist's standards? How does anyone know why the stones were chosen and what criteria was used?
G x
Good point..
I think We should wonder why Neolithic Man would transport to Salisbury Plain - Blue Stone from 5 or 6 differant outcrops of stone in Wales..
Whoops..
My mistake, it looks like it was a few more
In a number of publications arising from studies by an Open University team, the following results are reported:
"The blue stones have come from at least fifteen different localities in West and South Wales, and other areas as yet unidentified."
Brian Johns
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Pilgrim
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 27, 2009, 12:14
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Pete G wrote:
I'll lend you my copy of the book, no one here seems to want to read it.
it's a bit like the crop circle Believers eh?
Pete
Hi Pete,
I'd read it, but was put off by the website. Whilst I can see Brian's argument, banner headlines like "STONEHENGE BLUESTONES: NEW RESEARCH DISPROVES HUMAN TRANSPORT THEORY" and "NEW BOOK SLAMS ARCHAEOLOGY'S "FAIRY TALE" OBSESSION" tend to turn me off. Sorry, but it lumps it in with the "justyouwaituntil2012" brigade in my view.
Also, I've looked at the available models from the BritIce project,and it seems to my untrained eye that only in their "extreme" example http://www.ies.aber.ac.uk/en/fileshare/files/5492/3+-+E109b2bc.wmv does the MODELLING meet with Brian's supposition; and I'd have to say that the potential variance between their "potential minimum and maximum behaviour" scenarios is geographically quite large! I don't think any academic would use a single outlier from any large dataset (in this case 350) as being representative of the general findings of the dataset.
Peace
Pilgrim
X
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tonyh
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Edited Jun 27, 2009, 18:36
Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 27, 2009, 17:53
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I agree with you on the issue of putting down others theories to promote your own.. Totally unnecessary to my mind. I'm guessing that it's just to provoke debate but I really don't know..
Clearly a model can be extreme and correct, but I believe that Brian's theories are not 'fixed' to the fact that the Erratics were definitely dropped on Salisbury Plain. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that He believes they may have been some distance away.. (No, not Wales).
Personally I do like some of the things He bring to the debate..
The Stones coming from 15 or more Outcrops in West and South Wales and the fact that the stones are of various types..
Dolerite
Spotted dolerite
Volcanic Ash
Sandstone
Rhyolite
The 'Bluestones' are not all blue. Some are grey or brown or black.
Some are spotted, but clearly not all. Just the spotted ones.
Some are hard, but some are soft and friable.
The only link that I can see between the Stones is that they come from an area We now call wales.
The Bluestones and the Sarsens always get a mention but the Altar Stone is a Sandstone and not from Wales nor Wiltshire and I do believe other Stone/Stones has been found that also isn't from ether...
It's a puzzle
Tony
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goffik
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Edited Jun 27, 2009, 18:59
Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 27, 2009, 18:47
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Cheers, Pilgrim! I was trying to think of a way of saying that in a way it wouldn't be misconstrued - you seem to have nailed it! :D
Well, you've gone above and beyond what I wanted to say! ;)
Are you coming to the Megameet again this year, Pilgrim? Be good to see you again - and maybe even get to chat to you properly this time! It's been a while... :)
G x
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tonyh
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 27, 2009, 20:40
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Whoops..
Forgot to mention that only 27 of the known 44 'Bluestone' megaliths were Spotted Dolerite
Kinda spoils the magic of the 'Bluestone myth'.. (Well, it does for Me)
Tony
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StoneGloves
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 27, 2009, 23:09
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Think where your clothes come from - it's not too different. Put together they make an 'outfit'. With stones the process is now called curatorship. The model of stone use, that was recently proposed by the Time Team academics, (and whom I despise), doesn't include the three trunks in a row from under the car park. As I see it these Mesolithic installations were the first structure at the site. In a way it's just a distraction to concentrate on the sources of stone too much. Near to where I live there's a black shopfront, named Marble World - but it doesn't sell any marbles!
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tonyh
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Edited Jun 28, 2009, 08:15
Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 28, 2009, 08:12
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[quote="StoneGloves"]Think where your clothes come from - it's not too different. Put together they make an 'outfit'. /quote]
Thats another way of looking at it.
So the reasons for linking the stones together and bringing the Stones from Wales to Wessex so far are..
To make an 'outfit'
They are linked by coming from an area We call Wales (It's not yet proven that all the Bluestones come from Wales)
Welsh Tribes brought a Stone (That was of importance or reminded them of home. Possibly?) from their particular part of Wales.
Incidentally..
Not all of the Spotted Dolerite's are the same...
Not only are they not all the same colour. they are also not composed of the same material.. The Spot's are of differant material, size and colour.
I think I have it right in saying the Stone with the smaller spots is hard and durable, while the Stone with larger spots is less durable as it brittle. The spots work as flaws in the Stone. Not so good as a concussion tool
Tony
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