goffik
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 07:41
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I remember that the overwhelming conclusion from the Stonehengineers experiments being that the stones - wherever they are from, and however far they needed to be moved - would be done so using any means necessary...
So, if a boat were the easiest route for a part of the journey, they'd stick it on a boat! If dragging it were the easiest way, lash a few ropes to it and drag it! If it needed to be rowed, get some levers under it!
I've seen some interesting theories (Margaret Curtis' garden in Callanish is a bit of a museum to stone-moving methods!) and all seem, to me, to be perfectly feasible at some point in a stone's journey.
The glaciation theory isn't a new one, and is just as valid as any other. The fun of it all is that - as has been said to death - we really don't know!
I don't know how many books have been written on the subject - especially about bloody Stonehenge! ;) - by archaeologists, geologists, engineers, carpenters, photographers, etc, etc... but you can be sure of one thing - there'll be more where they came from! Which is no bad thing! And no doubt there'll be even more theories as time goes on! And so there should be.
G x
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tiompan
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 08:02
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Pete G wrote: tiompan wrote:
Old Keig area is considered to have been relatively glaciation free .
Considered by whom?
An archaeologist or a geologist?
PeteG
Geologists
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nigelswift
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 08:35
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I remember that the overwhelming conclusion from the Stonehengineers experiments being that the stones - wherever they are from, and however far they needed to be moved - would be done so using any means necessary...
... and easiest, if they acted like normal folks do everywhere. Seeing things in those terms only gets complicated by occasional speculations that they may have done things the hard way "for ritual purposes".
The reason I'm a believer in dragging (in conjunction with the application of levers where necessary) as the lead possibility in the human transport half of the explanation was the sheer ruddy raw power that was displayed for a few seconds at Foamhenge. It was a total shock and no-one expected it. Nearly all the theorising and experiments have assumed that rollers were needed but it seemed pretty obvious to a lot of us that they simply weren't - something to do with the fact that a stone weighing 3 or 4 times more than a bluestone stone got pulled off the rollers and carried on uphill regardless.
So on the basis of that simple observation I don't see why a large number of bluestones couldn't have been shifted from the coast to Salisbury Plain by means of stones dragged along pathways (maybe more than one per team, the ergonomics seem inarguable) in a couple of days. If you had the manpower you'd just do it wouldn't you - and they'd be erected before anyone had even built a quay down by the river.
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StoneGloves
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 08:58
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The mass of stone shifted for the classic pyramids, in Egypt, was enormous. That culture showed that it could be done. Our aesthetic aims were very different, though.
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nigelswift
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 09:25
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StoneGloves wrote: The mass of stone shifted for the classic pyramids, in Egypt, was enormous. That culture showed that it could be done.
As Patrick O'Archimedes used to say, "give me a rope and enough good blokes and I will move the whole world.” ;)
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StoneGloves
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 09:33
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I'm trying to get over an anti-Egyptian bias. Notlob museum has egyptian remains in a room that should have local prehistoric stuff. I've drawn an Amarna queen in leeks to compensate. I've rendered the eye wrong and missed out the eyebrow. It should be mature by the time Shaun gets out of the nick! Watercress for hair.
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nigelswift
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 09:49
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"Notlob museum has egyptian remains in a room that should have local prehistoric stuff. "
Those pesky Greeks say something similar about the British Museum.
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tonyh
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Edited Jun 25, 2009, 14:34
Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 09:56
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megadread wrote: tonyh wrote: Why would anybody ride a Push Bike when You could drive a Car?
Because you could maneuver your bike through woodland. ?
If you get my meaning. ?
Jeez, the penny dropped, i just worked out why they made so many axes. ; )
LOL..
My point is that, making decisions about what type of system was employed to move stones based on the efficiency of the system, is likely to be in error.
Wherever the stone were found -
Be it, Wales, Salisbury Plain or Elsewhere, they would have been finally transported to the Henge Site by some method. But there is no reason to believe it would be the most efficient method. There may have been other considerations to concider- Tradition or religious parameters to adhere to etc..
What would appear to be efficient methods to our eyes may have seemed ridiculous to theirs ( We 'toy' with methods. They, had to employ them)
Obviously, the starting point for the transport of the stones may influence the method undertaken. Wet and soft ground, rockey and uneven ground, woodland and thicket, brush land and meadow along the route will all have an influence.
The Bike and the Car -
If I wanted to make a 20 or so mile journey (By road) I would use my Car. The bloke next door would get His bike out and the lady on the other side would catch a Bus..
Tony
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StoneGloves
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 12:00
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I'd like them to give it all back. There's an Egyptian textbook in Bolton Library, that I was reading. It hadn't had much use and it occurred to me that Shaun would have consulted it for tips on the Amarna Princess. That book suggests the Greeks learned from the Egyptians, it needs more reading. It's fascinating how they formally rendered perspective. As I was Kodachrome Super8 filming - waiting for a sunset to pierce misty clouds - I caught an unidentified flying object. It came slowly from the northeast and I got some convincing unsteady shots of it flying along. It was only a silver balloon but should look interesting - if it develops ok.
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tonyh
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Re: The Blue Stone Enigma
Jun 25, 2009, 17:34
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Yep, You have to wonder about that..
It would have been a long way to transport second rate stone especially when the very best would have been available..
Tony
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