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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Theories on 'cup and ring marks' |
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StoneGloves 1149 posts |
Mar 12, 2008, 15:11
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And don't forget I've got this rock that'll drastically alter rock art perceptions - when it's been formally presented to the academic community (the countdown has begun and is T -6 days and counting). You can't prove trance states. You can prove figurative art though. And just what are these cupmarks doing on the steps at the High Level Bridge/ Black Gate anyway?
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Mar 12, 2008, 16:39
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you clever clogs. That's the one I meant. Probably. Though he has written masses of stuff hasn't he.
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Snap 106 posts |
Mar 24, 2008, 11:19
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What about water courses in the vacininty underground sources? I am sure if you doused the area you would come up with similar patterns? Snap
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Edited Mar 27, 2008, 06:55
Mar 27, 2008, 06:54
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StoneGloves wrote: And don't forget I've got this rock that'll drastically alter rock art perceptions - when it's been formally presented to the academic community (the countdown has begun and is T -6 days and counting). Come on then. What did they say and where is it for the rest of us to look at? StoneGloves wrote: You can't prove trance states. You can prove figurative art though. How can you prove that something as abstract as most rock art from the British Isles and northern Europe is figurative?
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fitzcoraldo 2709 posts |
Mar 27, 2008, 10:21
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12pointer wrote: I'm looking for different theories on what the 'cup and ring marks' mean. i refuse to believe they represent the circle of life, or whatever... Cairnbaan in Scotland, for instance looks more like a star chart. What about, that they represent tree rings, i.e. numbers, or recording a chieftans years of rule by carving them into an eternal forest record in rock... Do you think that in the 'cups' there used to be something? a quartz pebble? and the rings show its Aura at full moon. Someone said to me they are found around gold and copper deposits, ancient geological markers? Anyone else got some theories? I want to crack this mystery! Hiya 12 Without knowlege of the cosmologies of the people who created the carvings we are more or less scratching around in the dark. We can use anthropology to some extent by looking at cultures who still create carvings such as the San, the Australian Aboriginal tribes, the Zunis etc but you soon realise that even these people cannot decode their own tribes ancient carvings. So what we're left with is the study of the relationships between the carvings and the landscape, the relationships between carvings and with other monuments, other carvings, trackways, natural features and so on. There are many things we can say about the carvings but you more or less have to accept that, along with so many other aspects of prehistoric life, their specific meaning is lost. With rock art as with so much else, you generally leave a site with far more questions than answers. However all is not lost, just because we cannot attribute a specific meaning to the carvings doesn't mean we can't speculate, you'll find most rock art enthusiasts stay pretty much swiss when it comes to meaning but get a beer or two into them and there's usually a theory or two lurking in the back of their mind. cheers fitz
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StoneGloves 1149 posts |
Mar 27, 2008, 10:24
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'They' said it was natural, and the result of geological processes. It was just a he but then he is the accepted face of academia. A decent person, just a few years younger than myself. He was genuine - there was no artifice at all - but he did think it was a natural stone. I was so sure that he would recognise the tool marks that I didn't rehearse the geological rebuttal - Millstone Grit doesn't have fossils, no geological process could cause those shapes etc. I just became quite sad. He just didn't recognise it. I didn't say that rock art was figurative just that my piece had a figurative element upon it. 'Natural erosion'. The other figurative rock art that I can recall is the foot on the stone in the Liverpool park. I think there are other examples too. Under the Passage Grave Art heading.
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StoneGloves 1149 posts |
Mar 27, 2008, 10:34
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Because of context we assume that many of the carvings were made in the earliest days of metalworking and another product of this era was the carving of stone moulds for copper and bronze casting. While the intent can be assumed to be very different certainly the tools used and possibly the craftspeople makers were the same. (Google " croglin stone mould " for an example that is local to me). It would, perhaps, be useful if the stone mould tradition were brought into the rock art fold (metaphorically). [I am now also pretty convinced that TomBo never found the Kirkhaugh stone circle site and invented his report. A later group visit there spoke of a row of slabs that look like a bankside to an old road is just that - and a fair distance away from the actual stones.] {Also I've noticed that the Megalithic Portal still has some of my Bolton sites listed. I have a login - or had - there, and may try to wade in and get these sites 'correctly listed' there. I know it's impossible but that doesn't mean don't try.}
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Mar 27, 2008, 11:27
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StoneGloves wrote: Because of context we assume that many of the carvings were made in the earliest days of metalworking} Most of the secure associations we have for RA in Britain are before the use of metal .
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Snap 106 posts |
Mar 27, 2008, 12:11
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Not only were they before the use of metal why would thy have loads of moulds the same size? How would they use the ones that stand up? Try this one used for grinding herbs, potions, tinctures such as woad, hallucinogenic plants mushrooms, and other sacred herbs/plants. This for the horizontal and star patterns, for the vertical and/ or sources of “GOOD” water. They did use rocks/ pebbles in the holes to show stars (see Feaghna county Kerry aka rolls of butter) There is a picture in my Photos this is the main stars of Orion the hunter as seen over the hill in the distance. The brightness of the stars is shown by the size and depth of the holes. The stone in the middle is Phallic there are lots of alignments in this valley. I will try to add the photo and stars alignments to that site if anyones intrested Snap
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fitzcoraldo 2709 posts |
Mar 27, 2008, 12:41
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Hi G did you get those photies?
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