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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Nov 18, 2007, 17:30
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Well that diagram shows the voids that were recorded by Atkinson in 1968 and the ones that were identified by drilling bore holes several years ago - in other words, the ones they knew about before they started. But where does it show the "much more extensive" collapses that they were so surprised to discover when they went in?
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Nov 18, 2007, 18:29
Nov 18, 2007, 18:15
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Incidentally, that diagram was in an Update released in June whereas on 26 July we have the Avebury Lodge website reporting that "locals are talking about hearing of a catastophic internal collapse". Did the locals hear of a catastophic internal collapse? Or was it a rumour without foundation and everything is as EH said it was in June? Blowed if I know. Do you? See what I mean about EH providing a totally inadequate information flow?
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Etton 9 posts |
Nov 18, 2007, 20:14
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I know there was more movement in the hill in summer as I visited the site and spoke to some people there. I don't even know if it's entirely possible to map the internal void if it's that big and dangerous - it would require people to go unprotected into it and risk their lives just to get a picture of something that they know they're able to fill. I have no idea if they normally release information during on-going projects when they're doing restoration and things but it's good that they're doing it at all imo. It's a delicate subject, and I don't see anything sinister in it yet!
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Edited Nov 19, 2007, 20:31
Nov 19, 2007, 13:38
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Hello Etton. Thanks for your input to this thread. The concern of some of us here is that English Heritage are not being completely transparent about what is going on at Silbury - not only from a structural point of view but also from the point of view of their long-term plans (and projects) for the structure. For example, you say that, "Might 'less variable' mean that because no archaeology is now going on, there is only one process left on site and that is backfilling. One might not expect an awful lot to be happening as they are no longer removing old material and sampling or recording, or having to deal with collapses and deformed arches to battle to the central voids." when in fact the cutting of a new trench and the removal of large amounts of original Neolithic building material to do so indicate that quite a lot is still going on, and this is of great concern to some of us. Personally I would like to know why it was necessary to cut a new trench at all - could the geo-electrical cable not have been laid along the existing floor of the Atkinson/BBC tunnel? Perhaps for technical reasons the answer to that is no, and a new trench was necessary; if that is the case surely English Heritage have a duty to say so. Furthermore, why is such a large trench necessary? My knowledge of geo-electrical cables is that they are little larger (and sometimes even smaller) than an ordinary telephone cable. Are there plans to lay more than one cable? What exactly is their purpose? Can those cables be safely removed at a later date? Are English Heritage now planning to build into the trench the capacity to send in, at some future date, scientific/archaeological probes (such as the Rovver probe shown on page 4 of Update 6) once the structure is 'sealed'? (I seem to remember that sealing the structure was one of English Heritage's stated objectives). These are just some of the questions that the public do have a right to have answered, and if you are able to shed any light on them that would be most appreciated.
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Etton 9 posts |
Nov 19, 2007, 19:54
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I haven't seen anything about cables or trenches for them - is it in one of the updates? I'd be interested to read about it.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Nov 19, 2007, 20:32
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Etton wrote: I haven't seen anything about cables or trenches for them - is it in one of the updates? I'd be interested to read about it. Update 25 ( http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.17511 ). Page 3 (text and Fig.10 at bottom).
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Nov 20, 2007, 22:02
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But where does it show the "much more extensive" collapses that they were so surprised to discover when they went in? Don't you just love the way people skate around questions they can't or won't answer ;-) We expressed our disapproval of English Heritage's time capsule idea here and elsewhere and, with the support of others, forced EH to abandon it. Do English Heritage even mention that they've been forced to abandon their time capsule idea in Silbury? No, just a passing reference in one of their updates that the time capsule will now be placed in the Alexander Keiller Museum at Avebury! We ask questions, repeatedly, about the removal of the Atkinson/BBC door and 1968 concrete lintel and what do we get? Silence. We ask why x cubic metres of original Neolithic building material has been removed from the centre of Silbury to accommodate a 'geo-electrical cable' and what do we get? Silence. So come on English Heritage, we are after all paying your wages, tell us this week if you are, or you are not, going to remove the Atkinson/BBC door and lintel, and while you're at it, tell us why it was necessary to cut a new trench into the heart of Silbury and what exactly this geo-electrical cable of yours is going to do. No ifs, buts or deflections this time please - just straight answers.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Nov 22, 2007, 16:09
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So come on English Heritage, we are after all paying your wages......tell us why it was necessary to cut a new trench into the heart of Silbury.. 'Is there anybody there?' said the Traveller, Knocking on the moonlit door; And his horse in the silence champed the grasses Of the forest's ferny floor: And a bird flew up out of the turret, Above the Traveller's head And he smote upon the door again a second time; 'Is there anybody there?' he said. But no one descended to the Traveller; No head from the leaf-fringed sill Leaned over and looked into his grey eyes, Where he stood perplexed and still. But only a host of phantom listeners That dwelt in the lone house then Stood listening in the quiet of the moonlight To that voice from the world of men. Its not for us to know Littlestone. Think of it as one of a growing list of wewon'tbutactuallywewills. In this instance it qualifies by virtue of the previous constant assurances that "we won't be building a bigger tunnel" whereas a large trench constructed in the floor of the existing tunnel and stretching the full distance from the centre to the outside will produce, indisputably, a larger tunnel.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Edited Nov 22, 2007, 21:27
Nov 22, 2007, 16:45
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...a large trench constructed in the floor of the existing tunnel and stretching the full distance from the centre to the outside will produce, indisputably, a larger tunnel. Aye, and a tunnel needs an entrance. I can see it now, the Atkinson/BBC door and lintel finally and properly removed, but in its place a small state-of-the-art door bearing the year 2008, and beneath it a squashed millennium bug highlighted in red cloisonné. Silbury no longer needs the 'sound of iron on stone...'
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tomwatts 376 posts |
Nov 23, 2007, 13:33
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Wouldn't altering Silbury Hill from an ancient monument, to a research facility, require planning permission etc.?
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