goffik
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Re: Yes.
Feb 26, 2006, 21:56
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Just been here today...
Normally I take a carrier bag to collect any tat I see lying around at sites - would have needed a BIN bag for this lot!!! It was a RIGHT old state - worse than I've ever seen it... I managed to untie some small ROCKS that had been tied to branches - can you believe someone might think this is a GOOD thing to do? The poor branches had the string cutting into them under the weight... There's the usual supply of clouties, the flags are still there, and a strange selection of charity shop statuettes and drinking vessels and other junk... and christmas decorations galore! And a pair of pants.
Also cleared 6 or 7 tealights from West Kennett - 4 of which were LIT!!! The friends that we took there have never been there and said EH could easily put some signs up because they doubt people KNOW they're causing damage etcetc... We've been saying this for AGES here! It's a simple task! If someone who has never been there can see it so plainly, then EH have CLEARLY got it wrong.
G x
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Littlestone
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Re: Yes.
Feb 26, 2006, 22:46
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Geez Goff - what's it coming to?
If EH can't be arsed to put up a sign or two to say <i>don't</i> light candles here, don't hang tat on the branches (especially your pants) just come and go leaving things as they were when you arrived, then perhaps one of us should do it for them.
To misquote Chief Seattle yet again - leave nothing, take away only memories.
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PeterH
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Re: Yes.
Feb 27, 2006, 09:02
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Awful, but will signs deter? I think not and will just add to the non ambience. Its up to websites like us and the Pagan Federation to educate pagans who somehow think that they are honouring or worshipping or whatever spirits, deities or whatever. The reality is that they are desecrating sacred sites with LITTER!
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nigelswift
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Re: Yes.
Feb 27, 2006, 09:18
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There seems to be a bit of a correlation between litter and seclusion, which suggests the culprits are well aware they shouldn't be doing it.
Anyway, poor old Swallowhead has run dry, as has Silbury's moat. Goodness knows when, if ever, we'll see them return.
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moss
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Re: Yes.
Feb 27, 2006, 09:37
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Perhaps we should think about who is depositing this "ritual litter", some of it seems "roman catholic" with statuettes, rocks tied to trees - could it be children. Perhaps there is something to be said for organised religion, at least it has a shape and a creed. The sign if it has to be put should be just over the bridge, as you turn right, it should state simply, those found littering the site with anything but clouties and native flora?? will be fined at least £1000, should put some people off... to be quite honest there are other problems as well, who planted evergreens above the stream, and then used plastic underlay to suppress weeds as well..
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PeterH
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Re: Yes.
Feb 27, 2006, 10:27
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Yes Moss, but what are "clouties"? One person's clouties are another person's litter.
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PeterH
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Re: Yes.
Feb 27, 2006, 10:30
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Everything in my neck of the woods is running dry. The old name for February was "February Fill Dyke" - now its the driest month of the year. Even GWB is beginning to realise that there may be something happening to the climate.
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moss
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Re: Yes.
Feb 27, 2006, 11:18
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"Clouties are fragments of garments worn by those with an ailment. As the rag deteriorates, the ailment lessens. "
Is the definition you will find on the web; in matters of religion and belief one should step warily, and a cloutie at least stretches back into history so has some justification to be there. In the interests of tradition, wells seen as magical or healing places should be continued. But wells fall on a particular cusp; pagan or christianity beliefs are found at the same site its difficult to judge what is being offered. Having said that, the Swallowhead is the natural site of a spring maybe sacred in its time, but is'nt now.
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nigelswift
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Re: Yes.
Feb 27, 2006, 11:34
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I think you're right to point out that wells and springs are a separate case in this issue. It could be argued that there is such a thing as believers' or traditional rights, akin to some ancient rights and customs that form part of the Common Law, that parliament is reluctant to step on, and so should modern antiquarians.
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goffik
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Re: Yes.
Feb 27, 2006, 11:37
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I dunno - maybe it's still sacred to some... I like it, anyway... :o)
I just think people need to seriously think about what they're doing. Is clagging their shrine up with their crud an act of ritual or worship? I think that is probably is, to them anyway, although rather misguidedly so... I'm not sure it IS pagans, as most of them respect that you can't just put some crappy bit of plastic or metal in a spring, or in a tree, or on the ground that won't biodegrade...
It's probably people doing what they think are pagan rituals, and getting it horribly wrong.
Like the people that burn candles in places like WKLB, they probably don't think they're causing any harm. The notice boards EH have put up are pretty flash, with little bits of information on them already - it wouldn't hurt to put a little bit MORE info on them to help protect these places. It'll save them a lot of work in the long run... And then we won't have the possibility of these places being closed to the public.
G x
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