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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Arbor Low » What Is It?? |
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AR 17 posts |
Jun 19, 2004, 12:09
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Hello, my name is Anna Rodgers and I am currently beginning my third year degree dissertation in archaeology at Manchester University. My topic is that of Arbor Low... why it was built and what it was used for, also whether all monuments such as Arbor Low had the same function. I am intending to collect as many different opinions on this subject as possible, how ever weird and wonderful and try and draw them all together into my piece of work. I am intersted in archaeologists' views, religious views eg New Age people, historians views, visitors views and generally anyone who knows what the site is and has thought about it. I would love anyone who is interested in helping me by sharing their views with me to reply to this message or e-mail me at [email protected]. I will consider all views and try and reply to e-mails. Thank You. Anna.
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pixie46 72 posts |
Jun 20, 2004, 19:19
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just wanted to say hello to you, for no reason other than no-one else has and to keep your post up so that any interested and knowledgable peeps will get to see your request, before it drops off the bottom (hope that is ok with folks) pixie xx p.s a better subject title may well have been arbor low? or help please? i must admit i didnt look at your post for quite awhile coz of no relevent subject matter - no offense intended at all, just an idea. good luck with your studies, sounds great!
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goffik 3926 posts |
Jun 20, 2004, 20:23
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I, also, will add to this thread cos I reckon it'll get interesting when everyone's back from their solstice excursions (probably why it's been quiet!) I visited Arbor Low last year on a meandering return visit from Yorkshire... We avoided as much motorway as we could and found ourselve in the vicinity, so couldn't resist! Seconds before we arrived, 2 large car loads of "older" visitors turned up. They seemed to be thoroughly enjoying themselves, bless 'em! I think it has a very odd look to it - not really like anything I've been to before... In a good way, I think... It was difficult to enjoy the solitude of the place with the rampant oldies screaming with laughter every few seconds, but I think that really added in some way to the "happy" feel - they really were lapping up the atmosphere! As a complete contradiction to the happy bit, I also feel it was a bit sombre - almost as if it were saying "alright, you've had yer fun, but remember where you are!" I really would love to go back as it was only a flying visit (had to get back to Southampton and it was getting on a bit!) I doubt that helps, but it's a start! Good luck and welcome... G x
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Grendel 317 posts |
Jun 20, 2004, 21:15
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Anna, Unfortunately I have no wacky theories and subscribe to the archaeologists' view that henges are trading centres. Arbor Low and The Bullring in Dove Holes are both located next to very old routes which add some weight to this. How that fits into the three (very threatened) Thornborough Henges I don't know but then you do get supermarkets in close proximity to one another and you know what they say - the present is the key to the past. Cheers Grendel (Paul)
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jun 21, 2004, 07:42
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Perhaps the UK henges were trading centres at some point in their life, but in Ireland (the only other places they exist I believe) I don't think it fits the bill. Take Forenaghts Great where I was yesterday: http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/6219 Excavations here found a network of ritual pits and a couple of cists, one of these at the base of the longstone itself. There are 4 other (very) longstones in the area, none of them in henges and at least two mark burials. The east and west entrances to henges do not fit a trading post theory for me. These mark the equinox and thus are ritual. A trading post would probably have four entrances at the cardinal points, showing through great symbolism that 'all were welcome' no matter where they came from. The henge at Dowth is in the midst of a passage tomb cemetery. The one below Newgrange similarly. The Giant's Ring near Belfast encloses a passage tomb. Avebury is a henge. Does that look like a trading post to you? I hate to use the 'R' word too much, but henges must have had a large ritual context. Admittedly, that ritual <i>could</i> have been to do with trading, but I personally don't see it being so.
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Steve Gray 931 posts |
Jun 21, 2004, 14:09
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I have spent a good dela of time pondering the what and why of megalithic structures. To some extent I think they were a statement of what could be achieved. Whenever man harnesses a technology, he pushes it to the limits. Pyramids, henges, cathedrals, bridges, and skyscrapers are all examples of people showing how far they can go with their particular technology. Stone was the raw material of the megalith builders. To begin with it furnished them with tools that enabled them to achieve mastery over their hostile world with knives, axes, and arrow heads. As they discovered methods to manipulated bigger and bigger stones, they were symbolically achieving dominance over the very earth itself and they wanted to express that in a powerful way. Building a massive stone circle is just such a statement. It says "Look how powerful we are". I imagine that these statements of achievement would be tightly incorporated into their religious beliefs, so I tend to agree with Fourwinds that the sites would have had a predominantly ritual function. In some ways it's not too different from modern religions where people glorify their god with human achievement while at the same time investing their god with their own specific aspirations. Religion is just another tool to manipulate the world. "The will of God" is nothing of the sort. It's the will of some person or group. I think Neolithic people may have had an attitude something like: "We can manipulate the stones. We can make them stand up when by themselves they fall over. See how we command the earth spirits to rise up and do our bidding. We are the chosen ones. The true believers."
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elderford 482 posts |
Jun 21, 2004, 15:03
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...is that the monuments took a lot of people a lot of time and appear to be in a state of constant tinkering. ...so there is a theory that the continual building and altering of them was also part of why they were an important focus for the communities who used them, a continuous communial effort. I also like the idea that they may have been used not just for trade fairs, but for betrothal and 'marriage' ceremonies taking place between neighbouring groups (stopping the inbreeding and all that).
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jun 21, 2004, 15:24
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"I also like the idea that they may have been used not just for trade fairs, but for betrothal and 'marriage' ceremonies taking place between neighbouring groups (stopping the inbreeding and all that)." There is the Teltown henge that was associated with the marriages <b>and</b> markets/fairs until 1830 (ish). I also forgot about the henge at Tara. That's one mighty huge market for a supposedly scarcely populated period. This was preceeded by an enormous oval wood henge some 150-200m in diameter. There are also four smaller henges scattered around the Boyne Valley and their closeness doesn't add up to markets unless each one specialised in different products.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jun 21, 2004, 15:32
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I don't know what they were for. !! But I do think Steve's thoughts have a ring of truth so far as just the look of them goes. A cultural/psychological bounce from the nomadic, a celebration of place and of an ability to exert power over it.
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elderford 482 posts |
Jun 21, 2004, 16:54
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don't forget henges don't always have stone settings within them, and some stone circles aren't in henges. but i'll go along with steve, to some extent that major earthworks are pushing the limit of technology...perhaps. because if they were being constantly improved why stop at just one bank and ditch? (although i suppose you could argue that building a 2nd or 3rd like at thornborough is the improvement, or the setting of stone circles within the henge). what fascinates me is the idea that it is the ditch that is the important aspect, as opposed to the bank. lots has been written about the effect of the bank generating a false horizon, or open 'church', but some believe it is the ditch that was more important. brodgar has a ditch cut into the bedrock, and if they are descended from causewayed enclosures perhaps the ditch is of significance more than the its spoil heaped up in a bank.
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