GordonP
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Re: Wined And Dined
Apr 20, 2004, 19:36
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Agreed
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FourWinds
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Not outlawed ...
Apr 20, 2004, 19:41
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... legalised under the sign of the Golden Arches :-)
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FourWinds
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 19:43
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The invention of TV and computers and mobile phones has certainly changed the human psyche. So has the BMW ...
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nigelswift
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 20:11
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"the psychology of a people can change radically without any need to invoke Darwin, surely?"
and Tombo's remark "City living changed something in the human psyche, as did the coming of agriculture, and metal."
I'm not so sure, I tend towards supporting Gordon in all this. I tend to think we're more hard-wired in our psychology, and that our natures are the product of our evolutionary environment and development. It would seem strange to accept that every atom of our bodies was a fossil record of our evolutionary history and yet our psyches are floating and subject to instant change as a result of temporary blips such as industrial revolutions.
That's not to say our behaviour isn't affected by the modern lives we lead, when we're busy leading them, but the old mindsets are still there, and keep popping up. I was out on the hills today, away from the modern crap, and I could feel the difference. What's more, I was a lot more contented. There has to be a reason for that.
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fitzcoraldo
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the red tide
Apr 20, 2004, 20:31
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Another factor to consider when dealing with shellfish is that fluctuating temperatures would have produced blooms of algea much as we see on our coast during summer. Some of the algea blooms are toxic therefore rendering the shellfish toxic too hence the folk logic of only eating oysters when there is an 'R' in the month.
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fitzcoraldo
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monumental masonry
Apr 20, 2004, 20:51
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The first monumental thang in prehistory -
Lets take it all the way AQ
The 'Red Lady' (actually a bloke) of Paviland was laid to rest 23 THOUSAND YEARS ago in Goats Hole Cave in Wales, apart from the red ochre, jewelery and fifty broken ivory rods the grave had marker stones placed at the head and feet. A prepared body with grave goods, marker stones - monumental as hell
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FourWinds
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Re: Opaque
Apr 20, 2004, 21:02
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The Mod Ant is nearly 10 years old. As a piece based upon one man's experience and the knowledge of the time it's a great work, but a lot has happened in the meantime. The latest dates from Carrowmore for instance were release in 1997. Julian has now been to many, many other places and has realised that things he thought were right were actually either wrong or a little off the mark and need refining. I keep re-writing swathes of stuff after just seeing another couple of portal tombs. There always comes a point when you have to publish, but you always have to be ready to come back and address any short comings in the future.
I am sure that certain things he said in the Mod Ant will be superceded in Driver and that's only natural. At least things will be corrected and not left on the shelf. I keep seeing people recommend books from 20 years ago as being vital sources or the 'must-read' book on a section of the subject. Absolute bollocks! If a 20 year old book is still the definitive on anything in this sphere then someone needs to write a new one pretty damn sharpish.
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Earthstepper
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Re: Settlers, semi-settlers, nomad-hunters
Apr 20, 2004, 21:55
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Just catching up on this fascinating discussion and so may be repeating somethings already said. Terms like hunting, herding and farming need to be clear. All too often we read of the move from hunting/gathering to farming with "one mighty bound". What do we mean by "farming"? The term is often specifically used to mean agriculture - scattering seeds and staying in one place long enough to reap the crops. Fair enough, but agriculture and farming are not synonymous. Farming also includes herding and surely there is a clear developmental link between chasing herds of wild animals and farming them by means of selective breeding, culling, feeding, corralling and movement by means of Francis Pryor's famous droveways. This would require a settled or semi nomadic lifestyle. When does fishing and shell fish gathering become farming? With fish traps and oyster beds?
The point I am really trying to make is that there is a big difference between farming animals and growing crops. I suggest that herding animals was a natural evolutionary step from hunting them and that animal husbandry occurred long before agriculture. I further suggest that the first monuments in wood or stone were territorial markers when semi nomadic herdsmen wanted to stake out their patch. The concept of land ownership is linked to animal farming and agriculture as Native Americans, San Bushmen and other recent hunter-gatherer societies found to their cost in the 19th century. Perhaps monuments became more elaborate as people settled in one place. Perhaps they are just another way of saying "Keep Out!"
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TomBo
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 23:25
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"seems logical to me, more so than the bible."
I've no argument with that! I don't quite get what you mean, though... I don't understand why this is a choice between Darwin and the Bible. Its probably just me dragging the thread away from its topic, though! ;)
"'An eye for an eye' one of the better ideas contained in the bible."
Can't agree, but I don't think you'd expect me to. Martin Luther King said "an eye for an eye and the world is blind". Jah Wobble added "a tooth for a tooth and the world is full of suckers".
"I'm just a common chippie, what do I know."
Everyone knows about the human psyche, because we're all human! I for one am often more interested in the opinions of common chippies than psychologists.
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TomBo
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 23:27
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I'm playing devil's bloody advocate, to be fair. Some stones are clearly there to mark boundaries. Even these often do it in such an aesthetic way that some other purpose is also implied, perhaps?
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