FourWinds
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Re: Sudden thought.
Apr 20, 2004, 06:30
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Many Irish Holy Wells had a sacred "Trout of Knowledge" that had obtained wisdom through eating the hazel nuts that had fallen in from the tree above.
Finn McCool got his prophetic thumb from cooking a sacred trout for someone else and touching it. He could suck his thumb and see the future. He used to live his life by what his thumb told him would happen - I think this is where the Rule of Thumb comes from.
Many an Irish child, spirited way by the Gentry were turned into trout.
One Irish monk turned into an albino trout.
There's a whole load of old trout in Irish lore.
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FourWinds
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 06:36
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Hunter gatherers would have been constantly on the move throughout the year. They would often be nocturnal to hunt and avoid some big beaties - remember Ireland was crawling with wolves until quite recently.
Not a great deal of spare time really UNLESS the diet was very rich. Off picking berries. Rooting around for roots. Building camps at each stop. Collecting fire wood to cook your food. Standing guard against predators. Going off on the hunt. Preparing food when caught. Making skins into clothes.
A busy auld life.
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FourWinds
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 06:47
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"Perhaps the stones were a visible sign to intruders. " Undoubtedly later ones were, but there's no real sign of warfare pre-Copper Age. It's metal weapons that made us totally nasty. Ireland now has a population of just 4 million. This is the equivalent of the British population when the Romans arrived. Today, you can travel quite a distance in Ireland and not see anyone. There are great tracts of unused lands (mainly covered in peat now).
All out War probably only came about as resources dropped and populations grew. This ties in nicely with the advent of metal weapons. Coincidence? Maybe, but as it became harder to live 'wild' in a hunter gatherer sense the need to settle and farm would have become greater. Once you settle for life rather than for the Spring you get very territorial.
"Our closest relitives, chimps are territorial." Don't forget that a lot of the information on chimps gathered by that lovely lady who went out there in the sixties has now been negated by her. The fighting amongst those chimps has been put down by many to have been caused by human interaction. A more isolated colony now being studied more carefully shows no signs of the wars that raged through that one chimp society.
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GordonP
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 06:49
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busy auld life indeed, but preferable to farming. Who wants to spend days turning the earth with a wooden plough when game is plentiful? Only when the population outgrows the game available would it have been necessary for humans to turn to farming.
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GordonP
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 06:52
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Going to have to disagree Four-Winds, I believe humans have always been territorial. Try setting up your Barbi on your neigbours lawn.
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FourWinds
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 08:39
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That's because we have a concept of property now. Hunter gatherers may have had territory in the same way that other predators do, but these were wide ranging and sparsely populated. Yes, fights would have happened when they encountered one another, but this would not have been a regular occurance. There would have been no need to decide to go and invade another's territory until yours became unable to support your growing clan.
Failing resources and a growing population, both possibly caused/facilitated (partly) by the onset of agriculture, were the kindling for invasions and war. Minor skirmishes with another wandering tribe don't really count.
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FourWinds
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 08:41
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"Only when the population outgrows the game available would it have been necessary for humans to turn to farming."
This would seem to be a natural end to the process wouldn't it, and I personally wholeheartedly agree. However, some would say, with quite a strong argument I think, that man is always one to take the lazy option. The discovery/invention of farming, coupled with the associated settled-life, may have just seemed easier than following the herds about.
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fitzcoraldo
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Re: Fields Recordings From The Sea
Apr 20, 2004, 09:37
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Hunter-gathers often have far more free time than farmers.
The bushmen of south west africa can attend to all their needs - food gathering, shelter etc in about 12 hrs a week.
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fitzcoraldo
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Shell middens
Apr 20, 2004, 09:47
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Francis Pryor speculates that Mesolithic shell middens such as the one found at Morton in Fife could have been monuments in themselves.
The Morton Midden was composed of some ten million shells, it was carefuly positioned to be out of reach of storms & tides and people took pains to see that the mound grew every season
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fitzcoraldo
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stonehenge environs
Apr 20, 2004, 10:11
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"with the dates in the British Isles also being pushed further backwards, it's going to make Stonehenge (ca 2,000 BCE) look one day like a relic of the Modern Industrial Age".
Howdo AQ
You're going to have to include Stonehenge in those pushing back of the dates. The four post holes/pits that were discovered about 100 meters east of the stones, which almost certainly had to have had a ritual function, have yeilded a radiocarbon date spread of between 8500 and 7650 BC.
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