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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Avebury » pagan persecution at avebury. |
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Kate 11 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 08:29
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Hello, I am new to this forum but reguarly go to Avebury, it is an important place and/or a temple for many of us. If you are pagan or not, it will affect many people that the car park is shut from 4.30 onwards, how many people just want to go and have an evening stroll around the stones? The issue that Mik & Em have raised is important as it is an open place that has 24 hour access, and therefore for the peace of the villagers needs to have 24 hour parking, I was there on Sat night and the car alarm continually going off was very intruding & loud, and I was awake, the villagers trying to sleep must have been very pissed off! I'll second Mik & Ems original request, can anyone help with regards to this? Have there been any pagan religous discrimination cases & what were the outcomes? Does anyone know of solicitors specialising in this? And of course, publicity will help, so back to the original letter - please help! - and yes I also agree that all view points should be raised as it will help us be prepared in court, hopefully we can sort this out with the Parish Council before it gets that far. Thank you:) Kate x
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BrigantesNation 1733 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 09:04
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How long have you been using the car park without prosecution? Who owns the car park?
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 09:04
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This really isn't a discrimination/persecution thing. NOBODY can park there, not just Pagans. The case put forward was for parking to be allowed on ceremony dates only. i.e. Just for pagans. Why not the rest of us? There is no persecution here. If it was persecution you would not be allowed to practice your things ANYWHERE. And no one is actually stopping you having your ceremonies are they? They are just stopping you turning up in your 4x4s. Moss - I wrote and scrapped a long tirade stating just what you had highlighted. I basically said that the stones are not a temple but a tourist attraction. I also mentioned that Modern Paganism probably bears absolutely no relation to that which the Ancients who built Avebury practiced. I did not post it because I have gone soft or something.
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Kate 11 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 09:17
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Years, and I believe it is the Nat trust, Pete G, Mik & Em could confirm this (used to be English Heritage in the 70's) Thank you, Kate
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Pete G 3506 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 09:25
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The car park is owned by the National Trust, it is on the site of the Saxon village. Overnight parking has been tolerated at solstice in the past but since 8,000 people turned up last year its got a bit out of hand. If Michael Eaves let people in to Glastos early instead of putting up a huge wall and keeping people out far less people would be here at summer solstice time. I offered a solution this year by persuading a friend to open a field for camping at Winterbourne Monkton but the NT stamped on the idea by sending the police around with the notion that a New-Age trvellers site was opening up! From what I can see people are now turning up for 'Ceremony' most weekends. Full moon, new moon, moon zenith,sun moving into a new sign, eclipses etc PeteG
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Kate 11 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 09:33
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Hi Pete, Thank you for info - the times the NT agreed and that we are after are full moons and agreed ritual times, it has been the last two weekends because of Halloween and full moon, but no it isnt every weekend:):):) Hope your well Kate
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Simon Templar 6 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 09:40
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It's gratifying to find that most of you are at least capable of recognising that there are viewpoints other than your own - thankyou. I'd also like to point out that a public forum is just that, public - where some of you think some of us should post is irrelevant. It says much about the underlying environmental attitude of someone here that they should choose to give themselves a handle echoing a nuclear powerplant. Hmmmmmm
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Pete G 3506 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 09:44
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How can Avebury Locals help in this matter? From what I see passing the car park every day there is someone there overnight most weekends. Not always pagans but mostly. Its getting rarer and rarer to see an empty site these days. Of course there is always the Silbury car park and the Sanctuary and knoll down and windmill hill but that would mean walking to the stones. Having a car park next to the stones caters for Heritage the way the public like it. PeteG
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 09:46
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I would like to point out that although this is a 'public forum' nobody has the *right* to post on it. We are all allowed to post here. Nothing more, nothing less. If head Heritage shut down tomorrow, or the forum was removed that could not be seen as an attack on our rights.
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BrigantesNation 1733 posts |
Nov 10, 2003, 09:46
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I was just wondering if this could be an angle? We know that if you can prove to have used a path for ten years and can prove it then you get right of way. Not sure about car parks though, and a body the size of the NT are going to be difficult to go against. Like others here, I don't think that there is a strong case for religious persecution, since the same rules are being applied to all regardless of creed. While I am very keen to see overnight parking at Avebury what you seem to be arguing for is possitive descrimination for pagans, which on the face of it would appear to rule non pagans out. I'm not complaining, just highlighting an issue that could prevent this from getting maximum support. I strongly sympathise, as I can see the issue from your point of view, I liken this to other forms of religious persecution in the past, which largely went unrecognised. I personally would have taken a different angle on it. I would have set up "the campaign for overnight parking at Avebury" and allowed pagans (and everyone else) to join and lend support. This would have made it an issue that everyone could agree with, and be inclusive to pagan issues as well, thus maximising the potential public support. May I ask why target this forum for your campaign? Not complaining, I just know there are a great many pagan forums with many more active users. Whilst this is definately a pro Avebury forum, and a pro overnight carparking forum, as has been stated by FW, many would want to stayover any night they wished, as opposed to being motivated specifically by pagan festivals. I think the first thing you need is a clear statement of what you are trying to achieve. Then you should start up a petition and use that to get a show of support. Obviously a petition on it's own (unless you get tens of thousands of signatures) is not going to have much effect, but it allows you to focus your campaign and is a basic building block of any campaign. I don't think you should put yourselves up for prosecution just yet, you should wait until you have the ears of the press and the sympathy of a large number of people, then you will maximise the impact of that event.
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