|
U-Know! Forum » That's that then.... |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
goffik 3926 posts |
Jul 07, 2018, 12:14
|
||
|
That's exactly my point! :) The sham of a referendum should have only been put forward now. "This is our idea - please can you vote on whether or not you think it's a good idea" rather than "IN OR OUT?" with no discernible plan whatsoever because they overestimated the country's collective intelligence, didn't account for all the outside interference and downright lies and Little Britainism and gullibility of a certain type of people and didn't think for one minute people would be stupid enough to actually want to vote to leave with no plan in place! :D G x
|
|||
|
nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 07, 2018, 13:52
|
||
|
1. Referenda are not part of the British Constitution 2. The referendum was advisory only 3. No country I can think of has ever made a constitutional change on a simple referendum majority - it's insane. 4. The twat who set up the referendum to settle an internal party argument and had it backfire was at Wimbledon yesterday. Blatant or what?
|
|||
tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Jul 07, 2018, 14:59
Jul 07, 2018, 14:57
|
||
|
Hi Nigel, and others. I've been reading this topic and have made one or two irrelevant comments - not because I don't care but because there no longer seems any point in 'the ordinary people' talking. No one could possibly have known what an unholy mess would ensue or that Cameron would jump ship and leave his colleagues to fight among themselves digging themselves into a deeper and deeper hole. The ordinary majority are just baffled now but even in our bemusement most of us must know that a No Deal Brexit would be disastrous for the economy. I have listened carefully the outcome of yesterday's meeting at Chequers and what they have come up with sounds a reasonable compromise - so long as Michel Barnier doesn't dig his in heels in wanting to make the UK suffer unduly. To quote him: "Brexit is a loser's game. There is no added value to Brexit". Of course he is probably right, those who didn't know it before, know it now. He is the man who can make or break the proposals - the Irish Republic definitely want it to work. I personally want it to work as cannot envisage undoing what has now been done.
|
|||
|
nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 07, 2018, 15:37
|
||
|
"so long as Michel Barnier doesn't dig his in heels in wanting to make the UK suffer unduly." The other perspective of that is that maybe Barnier won't want the 27 to suffer AT ALL for what wasn't their doing. He has the right and duty. Which would leave us with no deal, and the negative consequences will fall exactly where they ought to.
|
|||
|
tjj 3606 posts |
Jul 07, 2018, 17:39
|
||
|
nigelswift wrote: "so long as Michel Barnier doesn't dig his in heels in wanting to make the UK suffer unduly." The other perspective of that is that maybe Barnier won't want the 27 to suffer AT ALL for what wasn't their doing. He has the right and duty. Which would leave us with no deal, and the negative consequences will fall exactly where they ought to. I am and always have been a believer in the Middle Way - no country will suffer as much as the UK if it leaves the EU without some sort of trade deal. I can't see even the Labour Party backtracking now. I heard Lisa Nandy, Labour MP for Wigan speak on QT the other evening - Wigan voted to leave the EU as did the town I live in - not Little Englanders but pretty much average working (class) towns. There was something going on other than only anti-immigration sentiments which led many people to vote for something they didn't understand in the hope of change. Those ordinary people probably now realise they were mistaken but still ... when will they be listened to. Not in the food banks that's for sure. Jeremy Corbyn was sneered at and ridiculed at PMQ the other day for raising the issue of bus cuts - some MPs apparently shouted "Taxi". https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/06/jeremy-corbyn-buses-labour If it is possible to do so I go along with the working-in-close-alliance stance with some but not total freedom of movement for workers and students. A compromise yes, but I truly hope for everyone's sake Barnier is willing to compromise a bit too.
|
|||
|
nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 07, 2018, 18:12
|
||
A lot of the early pro-Brexit dialogue was to the effect that "they have more to lose than us" and "they can't afford not to make concessions". It's looking increasingly possible that Farage and Johnson lied about that and therefore there's no "Middle Way" available and never was. We could beg Barnier of course ....
|
|||
thesweetcheat 6218 posts |
Jul 07, 2018, 22:48
|
||
|
Not to mention the easiest trade deals ever. No-one seems to mention that any more though. As long as all the Brexiteer overlords get to avoid the tax implications that would be coming their way if we stay in after 2019, the rest of everyone, no matter which "side" they think they're on, can be damned as far as they are concerned. No wonder they don't want any extension of time for transition. https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en
|
|||
|
nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 08, 2018, 08:42
|
||
Also, remember how Brexit was in order to escape from "silly" Euro rules (Farage spent a day bending bananas in Tesco's - how many deluded votes did that earn?) .... well, that's been abandoned and we're now asking if we can please conform to all European food and safety rules, silly or not, forever.
|
|||
|
thesweetcheat 6218 posts |
Jul 08, 2018, 13:30
|
||
|
Hardline leavers are already calling May a "traitor" for this proposed deal. Several Tory MPs appear to have said they will vote against it and if necessary trigger a leadership contest. Obviously the ultra-right Rees-Mogg is being lined up as the preferred option. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44755049 Starmer has said Labour won't vote for it, calling it a fudge (although their track record of voting with May at every step so far suggests this should be taken with a pinch of salt). In reality it pleases no-one. It would leave the UK bound by EU rules with no say in them. But everyone other than the ideological hardliners has said that "no deal" would be a catastrophe for the economy. It is pretty clear that any Brexit will leave the UK worse off (we already are worse off, and we haven't even left yet), marginalised and with credibility shredded. No coherent plan has been presented by anyone at all, whether it be the ultras or those who would prefer to retain CU and SM membership. No tangible, measurable benefits to leaving have been articulated by anyone *at all* over the course of the two years since the vote. In fact it's quite shocking that two years on, the only arguments being proffered are still "taking back control", "will of the people" and "sovereignty", none of which have been quantified, clarified or explained any more now than they were two years ago when they emerged as populist soundbites. And still anyone asking for details of what any of these actually mean is staunchly met with the inevitable "you lost, get over it". I agree with Goffik that there should now be a vote on the deal, but only because Parliament has proven itself to be incapable of carrying out its function as our representatives (not delegates) and doing what is best for (1) the country as a whole and (2) their constituents, at the expense of party loyalties if that is needed and their own careerist ambitions. The only positive outcome I can see from any of this is that it has shone a light on how badly broken our system of Parliamentary democracy has become.
|
|||
Vybik Jon 7720 posts |
Edited Jul 08, 2018, 14:14
Jul 08, 2018, 14:06
|
||
|
nigelswift wrote: No country I can think of has ever made a constitutional change on a simple referendum majority - it's insane. Does the recent Irish referendum result about pregnancy termination count? EDIT: Sorry, Nigel. This has nothing to do with, or add to, the thread subject. I just wondered if this is an example of what you suggested. No sarcasm intended.
|
| Pages: 4 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| U-Know! Forum Index | |
