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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Stonehenge and its Environs » Stonehenge Tunnel Decision |
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Nov 15, 2020, 15:01
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Well, I think it's an idea that grew out of control, fuelled by various self-interest factors. If you remember, the modern proposal originated with David Cameron, (remember him?) trying to gain West Country votes. Of course, it couldn't have carried on without the support of HE, whose job it is to voice what the Government wants, and EH, whose job it isn't that but who are coincidentally going to get a multi, multi million monopoly out of it and the National Trust who used to be against it but switched sides for a reason no-one knowsbut which investigative historians may one day unearth. I agree with you June. Make it longer, at about 0.3% of the cost of HS2.
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Nov 15, 2020, 15:19
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Ah, so it's corruption. That's answered that, then. No point discussing with closed minds.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Nov 15, 2020, 16:07
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Like June, I don't want to get into a forum argument about this. Also these days I'm like an aged trout that can't be bothered to rise. It's a shame though, the biggest deal in TMA history can't be discussed.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Nov 15, 2020, 16:30
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I would be glad to see constructive discussion take place Nigel, I just don't think I would have a lot to contribute. Perhaps a longer tunnel is the compromise Gladman meant. Like your aged trout, I won't rise to the 'closed mind' jibe. I do have a view which is entirely my own and that is to stop building new roads (and tunnels) across our blighted land, most especially at places like Stonehenge. Perhaps a tunnel under Avebury next!!
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ironstone 62 posts |
Nov 15, 2020, 17:25
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Forgive me if this comes across as incredibly naive but it seems to me that we have finally (after 40/50 years or more of debate etc) arrived at the least worst option for resolving/addressing all of the myriad issues surrounding the need to improve traffic flow around Stonehenge without desecrating the site. No scheme was ever going to please everyone and unless I've missed something, I haven't seen one that is so much 'better' than this that we should go on debating it for another 40/50 years. As someone for whom driving on that section of the A303 is, has been and will continue to be an inescapable part of my life I think it's time finally to say 'ok, let's do it', to accept the result and move on. I know that view will be unacceptable to many who use this site but what's the real (as opposed to ideal) alternative?
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Nov 15, 2020, 17:27
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"and that is to stop building new roads (and tunnels) across our blighted land" Posterity will definitely agree with you if that's any comfort!
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Nov 16, 2020, 01:27
Nov 16, 2020, 01:24
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ironstone wrote: Forgive me if this comes across as incredibly naive but it seems to me that we have finally (after 40/50 years or more of debate etc) arrived at the least worst option for resolving/addressing all of the myriad issues surrounding the need to improve traffic flow around Stonehenge without desecrating the site. No scheme was ever going to please everyone and unless I've missed something, I haven't seen one that is so much 'better' than this that we should go on debating it for another 40/50 years. As someone for whom driving on that section of the A303 is, has been and will continue to be an inescapable part of my life I think it's time finally to say 'ok, let's do it', to accept the result and move on. I know that view will be unacceptable to many who use this site but what's the real (as opposed to ideal) alternative? Hi, thank you for your polite and reasonable response - which deserves a reply. As far as this forum is concerned I am unqualified to express a point of view really, as I don't own a car and am rarely travelling on the A303. Nor do I use/visit Stonehenge on a regular basis such as at the Solstices or other times (I live in north Wiltshire). I have often said here and other places that I made a conscious decision some years ago not to own a car or hold a driving licence as my own small contribution in turning the tide of climate change. This decision has to some extent governed where I live (given it needs to near transport links) and has certainly come back to bite me in these coronavirus times when taking a train or bus is something that has to be planned in advance. Going back to the situation at Stonehenge, not just any road but a tunnel road that will have a massive impact on the Stonehenge environment. You can slow down in your car, allow yourself more time, listen to some music or, heaven forfend, go a different route. Yes it may take longer. The Stonehenge environment along with its archaeology cannot be put back and will be lost to posterity when/if this scheme goes ahead. The Secretary of State for Transport, Grant Shapps has signed the deal off - the National Trust and English Heritage are all for it - at a quick glance it sounds good but something about it just doesn't add up especially when you factor in the ever increasing costs - which will doubtless multiply. You would have to ask why, will it even benefit you Ironstone - I know nothing about you but would hazard a guess you might well be living a different life by the time this scheme comes to pass. If it does.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Nov 16, 2020, 05:03
Nov 16, 2020, 04:50
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ironstone wrote: what's the real (as opposed to ideal) alternative? The entirely real alternative is to build the tunnel a bit longer, say 4.5 miles instead of a niggardly 2.9 miles. This can't be claimed to be technically impossible as we built a rail tunnel of 4.5 miles under the Severn 150 years ago. Nor can it be claimed to be too expensive as we are going to build a tunnel for HS2 under the Chilterns which will be 10 miles long. The damnable thing is that the Government has managed to convince the public the alternative IS too expensive and our three heritage protection bodies have taken that as gospel without putting up the slightest challenge to it. Oh and that the scheme will break an international treaty, although in the brave new Trump/Boris world that has hardly raised an eyebrow.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Nov 16, 2020, 10:13
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nigelswift wrote: ironstone wrote: what's the real (as opposed to ideal) alternative? The entirely real alternative is to build the tunnel a bit longer, say 4.5 miles instead of a niggardly 2.9 miles. This can't be claimed to be technically impossible as we built a rail tunnel of 4.5 miles under the Severn 150 years ago. Nor can it be claimed to be too expensive as we are going to build a tunnel for HS2 under the Chilterns which will be 10 miles long. Hi Nigel, you know I'm your biggest fan but have to say in this instance I totally disagree. I do not understand why the Government has agreed to spend all this money (plus ++) on such a controversial road/tunnel scheme that benefits only the south of England at a time when the country has gone deeper and deeper into debt to keep afloat during these historically awful times. A monumental folly. Small wonder Scotland wants to break loose.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Nov 16, 2020, 10:40
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No June, I'M my biggest fan! But yes, not doing it at all is the logical option and putting up with/managing the queues for now (especially as Zoom has reduced the need) until that and many other road upgrades certainly won't be needed in 50 years. Incidentally Highways England has a dirty little tactic of scheduling road works and advising people to divert through local villages at holiday times which adds to the fun. I think holiday delays are annoying but on an annualised basis are miniscule and a lot less than many other places. No sign of these brigands adding another lane to the M25, why's that? As they know very well, bigger roads attract traffic, so often do no good, that's why!
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