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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Jul 30, 2020, 07:30
Jul 30, 2020, 06:29
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The current news story pinpointing the origin of the sarsens at West Woods near Marlborough https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/29/archaeologists-discover-source-stonehenge-giant-sarsen-stones?fbclid=IwAR1J6OJWDmtmeVA9Nk72bT0V1YjICjlQmhk80i1kNDEPTKijzEmT8E3JJuk is a bit familiar - I thought that was pretty much known (haven't the holes some of them were lifted from said to have been found?) although it now seems to have been proved chemically. There are also some headlines about the route to Stonehenge having been discovered. In the latter days of the Stonehengineers, one of my colleagues (name escapes - age, dammit) did a study of this and came up with 3 possibilities. Not sure if it's still on the internet but Tim Daw's IS: https://www.academia.edu/2444967/Map_of_the_sarsen_route_to_Stonehenge_-_The_Origin_Of_The_Stonehenge_Sarsens In connection with the Stonehengineers' work, I walked some of the area and concluded the slope up to the Salisbury Plain would have been a terrible barrier - except at a single place where there was a natural, gentler zig-zag route up the slope where it might have been possible to drag the stones. Again, I don't remember where it was, dammit. Does anyone know where it might have been? (Redhorn Hill someone has just suggested to me. It does ring a bell).
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nix 201 posts |
Jul 30, 2020, 10:38
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wonderful more images and stuff here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53580339
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 30, 2020, 10:46
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Mike Pitts has tweeted that in 2009 he took a film crew to West Woods sarsen field, so the suspicion existed at that time. Interesting that a rather speculative programme that was probably discounted may have got it right 11 years ago. My Goblins Live inside Silbury theory may yet be proved right.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Jul 30, 2020, 12:10
Jul 30, 2020, 11:37
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Ah, it was Jan Jackson! Here he is with his map of the possible routes! https://www.facebook.com/jan.jackson.1848?__tn__=%2CdlC-RH-R-R&eid=ARDAkkHLvtf5jLFFzm0_KkFx6YTgwXIQXe6skew4wUL-gtpUxRvhkHpAeuy3gcPBiXNhnh_GnL7cA7m4&hc_ref=ARTfMpHESBXJ2kwvdM9W6FuGhP-Kx_zwrP8UPvyF7g-QgFhK_z4CS77xpwho-OVJBGM As can be seen, two of his routes went over Redhorn Hill but they start at Avebury which we now know is wrong. The third, starting from West Woods went through the Vale of Pewsey and the River Avon. A whole other set of difficulties.
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Vybik Jon 7717 posts |
Jul 30, 2020, 12:52
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Maybe it was all down to Goblins. I mean, what do we really know about Goblins?
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Pilgrim 597 posts |
Jul 30, 2020, 12:59
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nigelswift wrote: The current news story pinpointing the origin of the sarsens at West Woods near Marlborough https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/29/archaeologists-discover-source-stonehenge-giant-sarsen-stones?fbclid=IwAR1J6OJWDmtmeVA9Nk72bT0V1YjICjlQmhk80i1kNDEPTKijzEmT8E3JJuk is a bit familiar - I thought that was pretty much known (haven't the holes some of them were lifted from said to have been found?) although it now seems to have been proved chemically. There are also some headlines about the route to Stonehenge having been discovered. In the latter days of the Stonehengineers, one of my colleagues (name escapes - age, dammit) did a study of this and came up with 3 possibilities. Not sure if it's still on the internet but Tim Daw's IS: https://www.academia.edu/2444967/Map_of_the_sarsen_route_to_Stonehenge_-_The_Origin_Of_The_Stonehenge_Sarsens In connection with the Stonehengineers' work, I walked some of the area and concluded the slope up to the Salisbury Plain would have been a terrible barrier - except at a single place where there was a natural, gentler zig-zag route up the slope where it might have been possible to drag the stones. Again, I don't remember where it was, dammit. Does anyone know where it might have been? (Redhorn Hill someone has just suggested to me. It does ring a bell). Hello Gosh. An age (non-Stone) it’s been. All ways around, having come fifth after venturing forth. Long have I travelled, fuelled by knowledge and ignorance (in varying ratios). Anyway, yes: it was I that drew (painted) the map, complete with its contrary contour colouration, for it to be inverted by (?)Steve(?) who went to Cyprus, I think. I’m grateful to Goffik for sending it to me in an email several years ago, and from which I was able to post it on my Facebook page last night. And thanks to Mike for flagging this thread up. The “first route“ of Atkinson - from Avebury via the Devizes road and Bishops Cannings - always struck me as suspect. An unnecessary dogleg, and little worth. This was proved (to my satisfaction, anyway) by the combined efforts of green-teed lovelies and camp followers, for the Foamhenge prog back in 2005. Atkinson’s route, and the more-or-less-straightline (echoing to the stunted squawks of attendant corvids) via Marden in the Vale Of Pewsey) both required a heave up Redhorn Hill (https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/osmaps/51.302555431303546,-1.9180774097310689,12/pin) - which I believe is the same angle of slope that we rowed a concrete block up for the afore-mentioned Foamhenge programme). I did wonder if the sarsen in the river at Marden was a sign of failure on that route. There has - to my knowledge - always been a potential for these stones not to have come from the Grey Wethers/Fyfield Down area, but rather to have come from the Lockeridge/West Wood ‘stash’. I’ve seen it mentioned in several articles over the timespan if my intrigue with prehistory. To have it confirmed is a good thing. I was always wondering why no one had done some kind of equivalent analysis of the sarsen to see where it came from. You may see from my map that I postulate that “the third route“ (the easternmost of the three) goes quite quickly southward - coming over the hill and into the valley at Huish (or thereabouts), and following the course of the Avon southwards. I put the route thus, because I was trying to figure out a “least effort” scenario that maybe utilised the Avon as an aid (or at least the valley as a flatter track) and would lend some additional meaning - as a reception point and delivery route for these sarsens - to the role of the Avenue that ran between Stonehenge and the Avon’s West Bank. Anyway, thanks again. Love, Light, and Peace Pilgrim X
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Jul 30, 2020, 13:22
Jul 30, 2020, 13:21
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Vybik Jon wrote: I mean, what do we really know about Goblins? That depends on whether you've read my book: "Goblins, they're effing everywhere".
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 30, 2020, 13:32
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I seem to remember we did some research to see what the land was like round the Avon at that time and decided it would have been forested or marshy, suggesting both dragging and stone rowing would have been difficult so they might have used a barge. I see Susan Greeney says the next step is to research the likely route, so that should be interesting.
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Pilgrim 597 posts |
Jul 30, 2020, 17:41
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nigelswift wrote: I seem to remember we did some research to see what the land was like round the Avon at that time and decided it would have been forested or marshy, suggesting both dragging and stone rowing would have been difficult so they might have used a barge. I see Susan Greeney says the next step is to research the likely route, so that should be interesting. Hello @nigelswift Ah... I seem to remember that now. Although my understanding was that “our” research was actually just you ????. So credit where it’s due. On Day 2 of Foamhenge, we were able to reasonably demonstrate (or so I felt) that the block could have been drawn forward on a roller track, which might have helped spread the load (although I seem to recall our concrete block was not the full 40 tons of the prototype - which was fortunate for one of our number). The morphology of the Avon is the factor here, I suppose - whether there’s enough depth beneath the ‘keel’ of a barge to be able to float it down to Durrington or thereabouts. Interesting stuff... Peace Pilgrim X
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 30, 2020, 18:57
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Warn't me that did the Avon valley research. I think we found a paper showing what the landscape was like at that time. Cores? No doubt the new route-lookers will find that too. "I seem to recall our concrete block was not the full 40 tons of the prototype". 17 tons I think, which is 3 or 4 blue stones so not bad. I do recall uphill was a swine, but still just do-able, until the local tug-o-war team helped the townie megalithomaniacs and the thing shot up the hill at a hell of a lick and straight off the rollers without an appreciable loss of speed! It taught me brute force is best.
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