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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Liddington Warren Farm » Foxhill Farm, nr Liddington. |
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 10:32
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Well I'm glad someone else has thought the B word (ollocks!) In this game there's an increasing tendency to say people who have a default position of doubting are closed minded - but actually evidence is quite a good thing to base opinions on and if it ain't there it rather matters. It was doubt that led me to ask about the dotted and solid lines. If the solid lines are speculative the figure pretty much loses 2 legs and the owl becomes mono-occular. (Course, if I'm wrong, hurrah!) And the spear. Gerroff. Who carries a spear like that? So why say it IS a spear?
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 10:40
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The area was well covered by RAF AP's in 1946 ,why weren't they consulted ,and why didn't anyone who had noted the strip lynchets in the area not see the figure(s) . And why can't we see the pics the fantasy is based on ? See RAF 106G/UK/1416 3312 14-APR-1946 .That should cover the spot .
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 12:15
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To be honest Tiompan you'd be wasting your time, because any amount of photos showing nothing at all will not convince the Faithful. Ironically I think the very archive that would assist is actually in Swindon. http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections/nmr/archives/ So of course this will already have been checked, before going public in a newspaper. Well probably. Not. Secret knowledge, it's great isn't it. I know it's 3000 years old. I know it shows an owl and a spaceman. I know it was looked after by pagans for hundreds of years. No I'm afraid I can't show you the photos, they don't come out well in a newspaper apparently. Or now (as we're told above) we're not allowed to see them until the work's published (in which prestigious peer-reviewed journal I do wonder). You'll just have to believe me. Oh and if you're interested I've got a great second hand car you might like.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 12:31
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Rhiannon wrote: To be honest Tiompan you'd be wasting your time, because any amount of photos showing nothing at all will not convince the Faithful. Ironically I think the very archive that would assist is actually in Swindon. http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections/nmr/archives/ So of course this will already have been checked, before going public in a newspaper. Well probably. Not. Secret knowledge, it's great isn't it. I know it's 3000 years old. I know it shows an owl and a spaceman. I know it was looked after by pagans for hundreds of years. No I'm afraid I can't show you the photos, they don't come out well in a newspaper apparently. Or now (as we're told above) we're not allowed to see them until the work's published (in which prestigious peer-reviewed journal I do wonder). You'll just have to believe me. Oh and if you're interested I've got a great second hand car you might like. Ooer! The biting sarcasm Rhiannon. I personally go with your earlier comment elsewhere that it is the 'silly season' for newspapers. The Swindon Advertiser is not always too discerning and will print anything with a local slant to it. Having said that - the Foxhill to Uffington landscape is archaeologically unique, as Tiompian mentioned, for example, the strip lynchets at Bishopstone. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2806561 And the all that is associated with the Ridgeway in that area, including Wayland's Smithy. Just wish the image looked more credible instead something resembling an adolescent fantasy.
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megalith6 46 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 13:24
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nigelswift wrote: m6 wrote: I've seen the photo What is the significance of the dotted and solid likes on the sketch? Do they both show features that are visible on the photo? Yes. But the aerial photo only shows up shadows cast by the uneven surface of the field, revealing the representational figures, so the photos are sketchy for detail, that's the significance of the dotted lines. The 'Woden' figure is even less well defined.
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megalith6 46 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 13:49
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Rhiannon wrote: If Bryn Walters is such an archaeologist, why is the Swindon Advertiser piece full of such utterly speculative stuff... Bryn Walters is the Director of the Association for Roman Archaeology. The journalistic spiel sounds about right for this type of reporting, I doubt it follows Bryn's material that closely. I am unconvinced by the 'Woden' figure but this is an issue - British academia is largely departmental if not tribal with experts defending their own knowledge base and with much less awareness of neighboring eras: Bryn's specialism is the Roman age. With regard to Welsh mythology the majority of Britain spoke a Brythonic tongue before the Romans (and the Roman Church) introduced Latin and the Anglo-Saxons introduced West Germanic to eastern Britain, so it would be remarkable if Welsh folk tales such as found in the Mabinogion were not also current throughout the rest of Britain. Welsh place names in southern Britain supports Welsh culture here, such as place names like Dover, Andover and the River Avon. In terms of North Wales, the action you speak of would seem to have taken place on the banks of a tributary of the Cynfael and not the Cynfael itself, the water course in question being the Afon Bryn Saeth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llech_Ronw
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megalith6 46 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 13:53
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tiompan wrote: The area was well covered by RAF AP's in 1946 ,why weren't they consulted ,and why didn't anyone who had noted the strip lynchets in the area not see the figure(s) . And why can't we see the pics the fantasy is based on ? See RAF 106G/UK/1416 3312 14-APR-1946 .That should cover the spot . The photograph is under embargo until Bryn Walters publishes in WAM, no doubt more will come to light at this time.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 14:10
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megalith6 wrote: tiompan wrote: The area was well covered by RAF AP's in 1946 ,why weren't they consulted ,and why didn't anyone who had noted the strip lynchets in the area not see the figure(s) . And why can't we see the pics the fantasy is based on ? See RAF 106G/UK/1416 3312 14-APR-1946 .That should cover the spot . The photograph is under embargo until Bryn Walters publishes in WAM, no doubt more will come to light at this time. Meanwhile it might be worth a look at the earlier APs and ask why nothing was spotted earlier .
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 16:09
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Well that's a politer reply than I probably merit, but I'd still take issue. It assumes some massive things, for example that the Mabinogion is a version of tales from the neolithic, that's like 4000+ years of oral transmission before it was written down. I think there's probably been a few stories involving spears in Britain, in times when we actually used spears. Why would it illustrate the only story about a spear thrower that we've got in this medieval welsh story? Where's the story about white horses to explain the Uffington horse, or the story for the Wilmington figure or the Cerne giant? Stories that explain ancient places (and I've read a few) seem to be short and sweet. To appeal to the fact Bryn Walters is a Roman specialist (he's not "an academic" as such, he's not a PhD) doesn't cut much mustard when this figure (if it even exists) isn't from the Roman era. It's like when you see celebrities on adverts, just because someone's good at one thing doesn't mean we should assume they have expertise or credibility in another. False appeal to authority innit? (Lethbridge was honorary keeper of Anglo-Saxon antiquities at the Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology in Cambridge, but that doesn't make his Gogmagog figures any more credible.) It's interesting that his write-up on the ARA site itself says he's a maverick and he's proud to be called that. Anyway I'll shut up now I've made my stance, and I'll have my owl service on standby with some ketchup if you like.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Aug 18, 2013, 16:33
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I'm not clear how soil that has developed over a chalk carving could cast a shadow.
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