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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Edited Nov 13, 2010, 12:35
Nov 13, 2010, 08:50
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Robot Emperor wrote: The Sea Cat wrote: Let's hope that one day it may also attempt to get brave and adventurous enough again to investigate beyond it's current circular reasoning which supports a comfortable belief system. What? What do you mean? Don't really see how it can get any more "brave and adventurous" than it already is doing - amongst other things, postulating and attempting to prove the existence of other dimensions, exploring the moment of creation itself, asking what existed before this universe, looking into the hearts of suns and exploded suns - explaining that all living things contain elements that were born in these exploding stars etc etc. It makes all the paranormal phenomenen look dull and prosaic. Fail to see what you are talking about. What is this comfortable belief system? I agree with the particular examples you mention, and I'm deeply interested in Quantum theory myself. So much of it correlates perfectly with ancient Eastern and Hermetic esoteric philosophy, funnily enough. I was referring to the traditional barricade approach to the so called 'paranormal', which to me and many others is far from dull and prosaic. There is a wealth of data and controlled environmental evidence that is rejected, just like the anomalies in the fossil record and instances of archeological knowledge filtration re. the possible antiquity of mankind. In these instances, it seems that if it seriously challenges the prevailing paradigm, it is conveniently buried, so to speak. http://www.suppressedscience.net/archeology.html ps: I am not a creationist, Hindu or otherwise, and I do no not believe in outer space lizards in Parliament, although they'd probably do a better job than the current shower! ; edited re. typos ( again ).
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Nov 13, 2010, 09:20
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I think you're proposing two things here aren't you? 1. That absence of proof shouldn't be taken as proof of absence - which is well worth discussing, and 2. That the Truth is being deliberately ignored or supressed by science - which from my point of view is simply not believable (OK, sometimes, drug companies, oil companies etc) given that there are millions of scientists but none of them breaks rank and admits they're part of a vast centuries old international conspiracy. It's a bit like saying men never went to the moon. If they hadn't, it would have leaked out. So it might be more interesting from my point of view if we could stick with number 1
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Nov 13, 2010, 09:46
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nigelswift wrote: 1. That absence of proof shouldn't be taken as proof of absence - which is well worth discussing, and 2. That the Truth is being deliberately ignored or supressed by science - which from my point of view is simply not believable (OK, sometimes, drug companies, oil companies etc) given that there are millions of scientists but none of them breaks rank and admits they're part of a vast centuries old international conspiracy. It's a bit like saying men never went to the moon. If they hadn't, it would have leaked out. So it might be more interesting from my point of view if we could stick with number 1 I think what science isn't able to do due to the absence of a scientific test is evaluate whether a person is likely to be imagining something or not if they appear and act totally 'normal'. What I'm trying to say is that you can know a close friend for a considerable amount of years and get absolutely no indication from them (and they from themselves) that they have an ability above and beyond what is accepted by science until it actually happens to them. When it does either side forms an opinion. The friend, knowing the person well and realising that they are a sane and well-balanced person I feel is much more likely to accept what they are saying is true and give support, whereas the scientist who doesn't know the person is much more sceptical and unlikely to believe them without the support of a proven test. I totally understand both sides and the difficulties it provides both sides with.
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Nov 13, 2010, 09:59
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I am not saying that 'The Truth' per se. is being deliberately suppressed at all. However, there are definite recorded anomalies/contradictions in some areas that are ignored/supressed. The information is there if one looks and is at least worthy of proper investigation IMO.
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moss 2897 posts |
Nov 13, 2010, 10:26
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Sanctuary wrote: If the house this was found in is on a ley line I'm a believer!!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328904/Chinese-vase-sells-51-6m-lying-decades-Middlesex-home.html Would'nt have paid that much money for it, its a bit florid. Does however have the myth of the Chinese Dragon Gate motif.. the carp by swimming up against the currents and waterfalls, would jump over the dragon's gate and be transformed into a dragon. This symbolism occurs in many paintings which are hung in offices, etc - hard work and achievement gets you the goodies. Wonder if the Chinese will give Cameron and crew a painting to take back ;) Also funnily enough it has the same symbolism as our celtic Salmon of Wisdom, who also has to struggle back to its home ground to breed and succeed...
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tjj 3606 posts |
Nov 13, 2010, 12:12
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The Sea Cat wrote: Robot Emperor wrote: The Sea Cat wrote: Let's hope that one day it may also attempt to get brave and adventurous enough again to investigate beyond it's current circular reasoning which supports a comfortable belief system. What? What do you mean? Don't really see how it can get any more "brave and adventurous" than it already is doing - amongst other things, postulating and attempting to prove the existence of other dimensions, exploring the moment of creation itself, asking what existed before this universe, looking into the hearts of suns and exploded suns - explaining that all living things contain elements that were born in these exploding stars etc etc. It makes all the paranormal phenomenen look dull and prosaic. Fail to see what you are talking about. What is this comfortable belief system? I agree with the poarticular examples you mention, and I'm deeply interested in Quantum theory myself. So much of it correlates perfectly with ancient Eastern and Hermetic esoteric philosophy, funnily enough. I was referring to the traditional barricade approach to the so called 'paranormal', which to me and many others is far from dull and prosaic. There is a wealth of data and controlled environmental evidence that is rejected, just like the anomalies in the fossil record and instances of archeological knowledge filtration re. the possible antiquity of mankind. In these instances, it seems that if it seriously challenges the prevailing paradigm, it is conveniently buried, so to speak. http://www.suppressedscience.net/archeology.html ps: I am not a creationist, Hindu or otherwise, and I do no not believe in outer space lizards in Parliament, although they'd probably do a better job than the current shower! I read Robot Emperor's post last night and thought perhaps Brian Cox had paid us a visit (as if). He made his point vividly and I think you have answered really well Sea Cat. Its not really a case of 'either/or' just about keeping an open mind to new knowledge and unproven possibilities - who knows there may even be a 'higher power' out there in the universe somewhere that we mere mortals can sometimes tap into. I live in hope. Going back to ley-lines, a couple of years back I was out at Avebury for the winter solstice and dropped into the Henge Shop. Blazing log fire and and couple of authors promoting their book; feeling full of seasonal good cheer I bought a copy which they kindly signed. By Peter Knight and Toni Perrott, the book is called The Wessex Astrum - Sacred Geometry in a Mystical Landscape[/] published by Stone Seeker Publishing ISBN 978-0-9560342-0-5. Archaeology it is not; basically it is about leylines that make up [i]"the landscape hexagram of Wessex, involving Glastonbury, Stonehenge, Avebury and other ancient sites. The authors tell of the discoveries of new megaliths, esoteric church symbolism, Knights Templar sites, lost chapels and holy springs". I confess I haven't yet read it fully though did visit one of the churches mentioned at Longbridge Deverill. Oddly enough this visit was made when I accompanied my friend (with dogs) to the funeral of John Michell on 1st May 2009 and have just come across the 'order of service' tucked away in the above book. It was a surprisingly traditional service and needless to say the William Blake hymn "And did those feet in ancient times ..." was sung. A thought provoking subject and an interest reawakened. Good stuff.
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Nov 13, 2010, 12:24
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tjj wrote: The Sea Cat wrote: Robot Emperor wrote: The Sea Cat wrote: Let's hope that one day it may also attempt to get brave and adventurous enough again to investigate beyond it's current circular reasoning which supports a comfortable belief system. What? What do you mean? Don't really see how it can get any more "brave and adventurous" than it already is doing - amongst other things, postulating and attempting to prove the existence of other dimensions, exploring the moment of creation itself, asking what existed before this universe, looking into the hearts of suns and exploded suns - explaining that all living things contain elements that were born in these exploding stars etc etc. It makes all the paranormal phenomenen look dull and prosaic. Fail to see what you are talking about. What is this comfortable belief system? I agree with the poarticular examples you mention, and I'm deeply interested in Quantum theory myself. So much of it correlates perfectly with ancient Eastern and Hermetic esoteric philosophy, funnily enough. I was referring to the traditional barricade approach to the so called 'paranormal', which to me and many others is far from dull and prosaic. There is a wealth of data and controlled environmental evidence that is rejected, just like the anomalies in the fossil record and instances of archeological knowledge filtration re. the possible antiquity of mankind. In these instances, it seems that if it seriously challenges the prevailing paradigm, it is conveniently buried, so to speak. http://www.suppressedscience.net/archeology.html ps: I am not a creationist, Hindu or otherwise, and I do no not believe in outer space lizards in Parliament, although they'd probably do a better job than the current shower! I read Robot Emperor's post last night and thought perhaps Brian Cox had paid us a visit (as if). He made his point vividly and I think you have answered really well Sea Cat. Its not really a case of 'either/or' just about keeping an open mind to new knowledge and unproven possibilities - who knows there may even be a 'higher power' out there in the universe somewhere that we mere mortals can sometimes tap into. I live in hope. Going back to ley-lines, a couple of years back I was out at Avebury for the winter solstice and dropped into the Henge Shop. Blazing log fire and and couple of authors promoting their book; feeling full of seasonal good cheer I bought a copy which they kindly signed. By Peter Knight and Toni Perrott, the book is called The Wessex Astrum - Sacred Geometry in a Mystical Landscape[/] published by Stone Seeker Publishing ISBN 978-0-9560342-0-5. Archaeology it is not; basically it is about leylines that make up [i]"the landscape hexagram of Wessex, involving Glastonbury, Stonehenge, Avebury and other ancient sites. The authors tell of the discoveries of new megaliths, esoteric church symbolism, Knights Templar sites, lost chapels and holy springs". I confess I haven't yet read it fully though did visit one of the churches mentioned at Longbridge Deverill. Oddly enough this visit was made when I accompanied my friend (with dogs) to the funeral of John Michell on 1st May 2009 and have just come across the 'order of service' tucked away in the above book. It was a surprisingly traditional service and needless to say the William Blake hymn "And did those feet in ancient times ..." was sung. A thought provoking subject and an interest reawakened. Good stuff. Thats seems like a very interesting read! Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'm definitely going to track it down as it's one for my library for sure, next to John Mitchell. As I'm lucky enough to live close to Glastonbury, I've been able to source many excellent out of print/rare books, and spend many happy hours wandering and pondering. :-)
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Nov 13, 2010, 14:07
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Experience may "prove" something to the experiencer but that doesn't prove it to anyone else. That's why we invented scientific method. But scientific method, mon ami, only proves it to a greater number of people (who are willing to accept the validity of the hypothesis and the subsequent proof :-) Put another way, I could show a tribe of rain forest dwellers, who had seen neither beer nor a glass bottle before, a pint of Old Rumble and claim, This is the shape of Old Rumble! and they would go ooh... And then I’d take them to an Old Rumble bottling plant (if they still exist) and show them thousands of bottles of the stuff streaming off the conveyor and they would say ooh again and know for sure that a pint of Old Rumble in a glass bottle was indeed the shape of the stuff. They’d believe me, and a great edifice of belief would be built around the Shape of Old Rumble. Then one day I’d pour the stuff out into a glass and say, Ha - got-ya! It happens all the time, its called shifting the goalposts. Reality is only real within the parameters we wrap around it, and they’re always changing. It’s all in the mind, the stuff of conjurors - scientific, religious or otherwise. You cant even trust quarks any more - they’re one thing one moment and something different the next ;- ) Like the time-travelling Hindu whose young disciple once asked, “Is it true, master, that you can travel anywhere, in space or time, and back again in the blink of an eye.” The maser replied, “Yes”. So the disciple asked again, “Master, can you show me?” The master replied, “I just did.” :-) In his book The One World of Lao Tzu and Modern Physics A Dialogue with a Zen Abbot, Akira Hasegawa writes, “Once I took Professor Lichtenberg who studies and teaches physics at the the University of California [to meet Abbot Kobori of Daitoku-ji temple in Kyoto]. As soon as we were invited in and sat down, the professor challenged the Abbot: “In Zen Buddhism, mind exists before matter Do you agree?” When the Abbot replied “yes”, the professor continued: “Then I have a question. If all human beings disappeared and consequently all mind disappeared, I still believe under those circumstances that the Earth would rotate around the sun according to Newton’s law of gravity. Consequently, I believe matter exists before mind. What would you say to this?” The Abbot responded immediately: “It is your mind that askes such a question!”” :-)
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neighbourofthedrude 1555 posts |
Nov 13, 2010, 14:33
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All Little Chef Resturants are linked by Ley Lines. :o)
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Nov 13, 2010, 14:51
Nov 13, 2010, 14:49
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I should clarify (for both you and myself!) that when I said "Experience may "prove" something to the experiencer but that doesn't prove it to anyone else. That's why we invented scientific method" .... that shouldn't be taken as suggesting scientific method ever proved anything or ever will. It merely supports or disproves hypotheses. On that basis I'd like to re-cast your statement "But scientific method, mon ami, only proves it to a greater number of people to read "But scientific method, mon ami, only strengthens a hypothesis to a greater number of people .... and agree with it! Once scientific people are delivered from the unfair accusation of being prey to belief and proof and certainty it becomes very hard to find fault with their position!
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