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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Rock art. so what's that all about then. ? |
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Chris Collyer 849 posts |
Aug 02, 2010, 23:52
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nix wrote: Resonox wrote: Are there any recorded "prehistoric" carvings in the UK of anything other than cups and spirals?...Other than things like the Cissbury paintings, I can't think of anything carved..the oldest I know for sure being pictish...anyone more clued up? http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/28113/aberdeenshire.html Balls! I'd forgotten about those. I wonder if the Folkton drums count as rock-art or rock-artifacts? http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/65450/kirkheads.html -Chris
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BuckyE 468 posts |
Aug 03, 2010, 05:04
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Stoned out of their minds, bored to death. http://lovebunnies.luckypro.biz/01_stuff/04_galleries/2005-07_Tahoe/index.html Feel free to google "grimes point" I realize this isn't UK Neolithic. Still...
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juamei 2013 posts |
Aug 03, 2010, 06:40
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Is the date range on the sign correct? 5000BC to 1000AD? Or is that just another way of saying we have no idea? I know the australian aborigine paintings have a longer date range so its possible...
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Aug 03, 2010, 15:49
Aug 03, 2010, 08:42
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A while ago I bought a copy of ‘Lost Civilisations of the Stone Age’ by Richard Rudgley (published 1998) in an Oxfam Shop. He comes at things very much as an anthropologist. The chapter on the Palaeolithic Origins of Writing has proved interesting and a comment someone made recently has prompted me to re-visit it. Among some of the symbols discussed is the zigzag which seems to have been deliberately carved throughout the upper Palaeolithic period as an unbroken symbol. Very simply put, it seems to be accepted that the zigzag represents water; the V shape depicts birds in flight; the cross represents the yearly cycle or wholeness; and the spiral the life giving element of water. Rudgley acknowledges and refers often to the work of Marija Gimbutas on Old Europe. I’m currently re-reading this chapter and recommend the book if you can get hold of it, here is the opening paragraph: In seeking to explain the emergence of Old European script, Gimbutus proposed that it was part of a much wider corpus of signs that expressed the cosmological and spiritual beliefs of the Neolithic age. These symbolic designs and motifs (crosses, spirals, dots lozenges etc) appear on numerous artefacts made from bone, stone, wood and clay... It seems to me that what ‘we’ are learning from the enigmatic clues from the past is that ‘they’ lived as part of Nature and that the downfall of ‘modern mankind’ will be that we have lost their knowledge.
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BuckyE 468 posts |
Aug 03, 2010, 22:05
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Well, I don't remember. I think the dating is a more or less a terminus a quo / terminus ad quem proposition, based on other archaeology, and the existence/disappearance of the huge lake along which these things were supposed to have been made. I know petroglyphs like this, which are pecked or scratched through the "desert patina" that accumulates on the rocks can theoretically be dated by the amount of patina that has reaccumulated. But my impression, and don't quote me, is that while the chemical reactions creating the patina are fairly well understood, the actual rate of creation isn't. Apparently the chemical reactions vary, or perhaps some people think they might vary, with changes in climate: dryer, cooler, etc. Makes a certain amount of sense. Very much like C14 dating, which needs to be "corrected" by estimates of the amount of C14 present during the lifetime of the sample. And as far as I know, no correcting has been done for desert patina in particular places and times. I've looked through the one reference we have for the area, and Nada on these petroglyphs. Same on the web: everyone repeating something like the dates on the sign with no rationale given for them. Sorry! Screwy glyphs, though, eh?
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revnox 92 posts |
Aug 04, 2010, 20:23
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tiompan wrote: revnox wrote: not maps as in cartography of the physical landscape! Maps of what then ? Tiompan, if we disregard the topological map what maps are we left with?
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revnox 92 posts |
Aug 04, 2010, 20:29
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Tiompan heres a clue in the words of another "much wider corpus of signs that expressed the cosmological and spiritual beliefs of the Neolithic age. Now consider a pre-egoic culture without the consideration of a cosmo-spiritual dichotomy between landscape and self.......where would that lead us?
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Aug 04, 2010, 20:31
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Is that not for you to answer?! But I suppose you mean a mental map of something or other do you? But taken out of your brain and like hammered into a rock. But what's the something or other? That's the question.
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revnox 92 posts |
Aug 04, 2010, 20:34
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Why is that for me to answer? is not conjecture, point and counterpoint the reason for forums? Do we not all (or most) employ the question and rhetorical question as a means of exploration and edification?
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revnox 92 posts |
Aug 04, 2010, 20:42
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faerygirl wrote: The few things I have read (and maybe it just says a lot about the kind of books I opt for!) suggest its all part of Shaman rituals. If you take certain hallucinogens then you see concentric rings, squiggly lines, zigzags etc. These were (and still are in areas where there are still shamans) often believed to be the ACTUAL next dimention or the land of the dead or the spirits of wherever you were trying to get to. When Graham Hancock took ibogaine as study for the book Supernatural he saw the exact symbols that are often seen as rock art in ancient caves such a wiggly lines, serpents and circles. what exactly do you mean by shaman rituals? Have you taken significant doses of hallucinogens? would you therefore say they are interpretations of some psycho-spiritual process? if so what is this process? When you so vaguely talk of the " land of the dead or the spirits of wherever you were trying to get to. what exactly are you referring to? This is so vague and open to interpretation that i have no idea of your point! Please illuminate.
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