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OT: Wells and folklore
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Squid Tempest
Squid Tempest
8769 posts

Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 24, 2009, 11:41
Interesting link! I just have to read "Old London's Spas, Baths and Wells" by Septimus Sunderland, if only to make sure it isn't a made-up name!
Rhiannon
5291 posts

Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 24, 2009, 13:35
Glad you're happy! Isn't the internet a marvellous thing.
Squid Tempest
Squid Tempest
8769 posts

Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 24, 2009, 15:30
I've been having a bit of a read of that and there is some fascinating stuff in there. I hadn't realised that so many street names in London came from the sites of wells, or that wells were so important in the development of London. along the way (checking out Bride Lane, site of Bride's Well (from "Bridget" natch)) I also discovered that there is a church by the name of St Andrew-by-the-Wardrobe, which tickled me...
moss
moss
2897 posts

Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 24, 2009, 16:58
And of course if Google wins its case in court against Amazon etc, the new Espresso printing machine will churn 'out of copyright books' (2 million online I think) in five minutes - that's if you happen to live by one...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/18/google-espresso-books
Branwen
824 posts

Edited Sep 25, 2009, 00:41
Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 25, 2009, 00:39
goffik wrote:
I know this will attract flak from some quarters, as it's a bit off-topic for TMA, but...

Branwen - I've been thoroughly enjoying you many informed posts on so many subjects!

As some people here will know, I have an interest in wells and water-lore, and this is a great story! Not untypical in a lot of ways, but always fascinating to hear...

What I really wanted to ask is - do you have a website or blog with more info on it? I'd love too read more of this stuff! :)

G x


I am new to the forum, so if I've been off topic I apologise.

I started using the site to look up access of sites I wanted to take tour groups to which had stories I wanted to relate as we went round. Then I saw there was a Folklore link on most sites, so thought I should contribute to earn my keep as it were, and thought folklore links meant it wasn't off topic too much. I'm not knowledgeable enough on the stones and alignments and suchlike to contribute much there, and youse guys seem to have that covered anyway. What a great resource. Anything I can help out with is no problem, though I'd say it's mostly Scottish stuff I've learned.

I don't have a website or blog, I only got a home computer in 2003, though I'd used the library ones before that. I've been studying folklore for more than 20 years. I did write some stuff for ezine and magazines, but it's mostly of interest to Druids.

Wells and springs are of particular interest to me, as might be obvious from some of my posts, especially the ones in Edinburgh. I thought of publishing my work on St Triduana's Well, for instance, but as a storyteller, your sources are the oral tradition. Editors want you to quote a book which quotes a well known published author who spoke to a primary source sometime in the past, not hear from the primary source themselves. I might write it up in a less historical fashion, as a storyteller, instead.

I actually find the internet limited in my searches, but it's getting better. Perhaps I'm just googling more out of the way stuff though. A good place to start is Colin and Janet Bord's books "Sacred Waters" and "Holy Wells in Britain". It gives quite a comprehensive list of wells in a format much like TMA, with grid references, and a bit of folklore, I seem to remember. I will have a look and see about some links I might have saved too, but I just got out of hospital so dragging out my old computer to find them is a no no until my stitches heal.

I don't mind passing out folklore, the more people that know it the better, as far as I'm concerned. Folklore centres are springing up now, so I don't think it will be lost, but it's been a close thing.

I tend not to pass out my particular style or versions of tales is all, but outlining the plot is no problem. As TJJ has guessed, giving away your actual story is to be avoided, as it's a quick way to lose your edge over competitors who just look up other peoples stories online and tell them, instead of developing a skill and style of their own. When I tell mine it would look like I goggled them if I did, and people want to learn something they can't get online on storytelling tours.

If it's stuff about the Wells O Wearie, I could post what I have on the site page where I posted the picture, if you like. I'm going to be off for 3 weeks and adding stuff to Wikipedia on the subject of Edinburgh anyways. Something to do while I am inactive.
tiompan
tiompan
5758 posts

Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 25, 2009, 09:13
Branwen wrote:
goffik wrote:
I know this will attract flak from some quarters, as it's a bit off-topic for TMA, but...

Branwen - I've been thoroughly enjoying you many informed posts on so many subjects!

As some people here will know, I have an interest in wells and water-lore, and this is a great story! Not untypical in a lot of ways, but always fascinating to hear...

What I really wanted to ask is - do you have a website or blog with more info on it? I'd love too read more of this stuff! :)

G x


I am new to the forum, so if I've been off topic I apologise.

I started using the site to look up access of sites I wanted to take tour groups to which had stories I wanted to relate as we went round. Then I saw there was a Folklore link on most sites, so thought I should contribute to earn my keep as it were, and thought folklore links meant it wasn't off topic too much. I'm not knowledgeable enough on the stones and alignments and suchlike to contribute much there, and youse guys seem to have that covered anyway. What a great resource. Anything I can help out with is no problem, though I'd say it's mostly Scottish stuff I've learned.

I don't have a website or blog, I only got a home computer in 2003, though I'd used the library ones before that. I've been studying folklore for more than 20 years. I did write some stuff for ezine and magazines, but it's mostly of interest to Druids.

Wells and springs are of particular interest to me, as might be obvious from some of my posts, especially the ones in Edinburgh. I thought of publishing my work on St Triduana's Well, for instance, but as a storyteller, your sources are the oral tradition. Editors want you to quote a book which quotes a well known published author who spoke to a primary source sometime in the past, not hear from the primary source themselves. I might write it up in a less historical fashion, as a storyteller, instead.

I actually find the internet limited in my searches, but it's getting better. Perhaps I'm just googling more out of the way stuff though. A good place to start is Colin and Janet Bord's books "Sacred Waters" and "Holy Wells in Britain". It gives quite a comprehensive list of wells in a format much like TMA, with grid references, and a bit of folklore, I seem to remember. I will have a look and see about some links I might have saved too, but I just got out of hospital so dragging out my old computer to find them is a no no until my stitches heal.

I don't mind passing out folklore, the more people that know it the better, as far as I'm concerned. Folklore centres are springing up now, so I don't think it will be lost, but it's been a close thing.

I tend not to pass out my particular style or versions of tales is all, but outlining the plot is no problem. As TJJ has guessed, giving away your actual story is to be avoided, as it's a quick way to lose your edge over competitors who just look up other peoples stories online and tell them, instead of developing a skill and style of their own. When I tell mine it would look like I goggled them if I did, and people want to learn something they can't get online on storytelling tours.

If it's stuff about the Wells O Wearie, I could post what I have on the site page where I posted the picture, if you like. I'm going to be off for 3 weeks and adding stuff to Wikipedia on the subject of Edinburgh anyways. Something to do while I am inactive.


Branwen ,I've been trying to find if there was a Cuthilldorie . Cuthill as a place name is interesting in that it may mean place of judgment (medieval and distinct from mhoid which may have been earlier and less formal) coming from the gealic còmhdhail and scots couthall .In non highland areas there are two in the Lothians and one in Kinross The one in east Lothian is near a mill (only marked on 19th C OS map ) the other is coastal and associated with rocks . One element is missing from the area ,the black well which may well (pun) just be a necessary part of the story or more difficult to find mentioned . Dorie is as a suffix is only found in one place name ,Auchindorie in Angus although it may be derived from duran as ther was a cothillduran noted in the 14 th C in Strathearn . Basically it's geting closer but if you have input that may help ,please do .
Branwen
824 posts

Edited Sep 25, 2009, 17:43
Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 25, 2009, 17:20
I've added the east lothian version of the story I learned to the folklore section beside the Well O Wearie.

I have cuthill as from Cuithail meaning "fold" in the first place name resource I looked up. Being a lowland name may mean it's saxon or brythonic in origin though. I'll look into it. Often a brythonic name would be replaced with a scots or gaelic one which sounded the same, but actually had a completely different meaning, as in the case of Loch Lochy, which gaelophiles give as meaning the loch of splendour, but which folklore gives us our clue to its brythonic meaning, as it has always been known locally as maiden loch.

There's a black well at Culloden, it's other name is the well of the dead, so perhaps the name of the well relating to Cuthilldorie has changed to something more english or more christian over time, and looking at the names of well nearby might be illuminating. Also, wells dry up all the time, so there's no guarantee the well even exists anymore.
tiompan
tiompan
5758 posts

Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 25, 2009, 17:42
Branwen wrote:
I've added the east lothian version of the story I learned to the folklore section beside the Well O Wearie.

I have cuthill as from Cuithail meaning "fold" in the first place name resource I looked up. Being a lowland name may mean it's saxon or brythonic in origin though. I'll look into it.


Why do you think it's the East Lothian ? That seems to be the nearest in that it did have a mill but there are still another three contenders ,West Lothian ,Kinross and Strathearn . I havn't considered the Sutherland examples .
Yes the scots has a different "woody" meaning from the gaelic "assembly place "
tiompan
tiompan
5758 posts

Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 25, 2009, 17:45
tiompan wrote:
Branwen wrote:
I've added the east lothian version of the story I learned to the folklore section beside the Well O Wearie.

I have cuthill as from Cuithail meaning "fold" in the first place name resource I looked up. Being a lowland name may mean it's saxon or brythonic in origin though. I'll look into it.


Why do you think it's the East Lothian ? That seems to be the nearest in that it did have a mill but there are still another three contenders ,West Lothian ,Kinross and Strathearn . I havn't considered the Sutherland examples .
Yes the scots has a different "woody" meaning from the gaelic "assembly place "


ooops it's the West Lothian one that had a mill .
wideford
1086 posts

Re: OT: Wells and folklore
Sep 25, 2009, 17:46
In England the place Cutbrawn is from the Celtic coit bran 'wood of the crows"

Branwen wrote:
I've added the east lothian version of the story I learned to the folklore section beside the Well O Wearie.

I have cuthill as from Cuithail meaning "fold" in the first place name resource I looked up. Being a lowland name may mean it's saxon or brythonic in origin though. I'll look into it. Often a brythonic name would be replaced with a scots or gaelic one which sounded the same, but actually had a completely different meaning, as in the case of Loch Lochy, which gaelophiles give as meaning the loch of splendour, but which folklore gives us our clue to its brythonic meaning, as it has always been known locally as maiden loch.

There's a black well at Culloden, it's other name is the well of the dead, so perhaps the name of the well relating to Cuthilldorie has changed to something more english or more christian over time, and looking at the names of well nearby might be illuminating. Also, wells dry up all the time, so there's no guarantee the well even exists anymore.
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