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Unsung Forum » Soundtracks of Our Lives week ending 25 November 2012 CE |
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jb lamptoast-morsley 2448 posts |
Nov 27, 2012, 00:02
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This is my favourite Bjork song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0liY3Qy4ko Actually now you mention it, having watched a few of her videos with her prancing around, i do get where Ian is coming from - but isn't that just what pop artists do?
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Edited Nov 27, 2012, 00:22
Nov 27, 2012, 00:22
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I don't own any of her other albums and only really know her as a songwriter for others. But this new album is a rock n soul n dirty funky beast of a thing with a visceral lyrical slant on 'our times' that manages to speak well and righteously without preaching. It's protest from the heart and, in all senses of the word, soul. I think a reason why it connected with me is that, when you've spent a lot of the year listening to ambience, jazz, drone, doom and other things that I do indeed adore and cherish, sometimes, every so often, it's good to be reminded of that most old fashioned of things, The Song. This album is packed with great, pumpin' songs, and delivered with a relish and groove that just makes you feel good when things are bad.
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keith a 9574 posts |
Edited Nov 27, 2012, 01:08
Nov 27, 2012, 01:06
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It's very of its time but I was a sucker for this disco record by Nona back in the day. If the term 'disco record' is offensive to anyone reading this, then best not play it! ; ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK5vizEzw7w Edit: But if you like tracks like Janet Jackson's Control then you might enjoy this, too.
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Nov 27, 2012, 01:26
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jb lamptoast-morsley wrote: This is my favourite Bjork song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0liY3Qy4ko Actually now you mention it, having watched a few of her videos with her prancing around, i do get where Ian is coming from - but isn't that just what pop artists do? Yeah they do. But I think what Ian (and myself for that matter) is saying, is that sometimes it seems more forced and worked on which can be a birrova turn off to some. Note 'some'. The irony is that, you seem to think this represents an over-intellectualisation of a response, when the it's actually the gut feeling that doesn't sit right.
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stray 2057 posts |
Edited Nov 27, 2012, 01:59
Nov 27, 2012, 01:56
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jb lamptoast-morsley wrote: It leads to questions like 'do you object to art as a commercial venture?'. Where do you draw the line? Are you advocating the approach of the Buddhist artist that simply blows away the dust of the painting after it is created? Is that a realistic expectation in the modern world? Is it really unethical to make money or a living from Art? Maybe it does dilute it. There have been discussions about this kind of thing here before I concur with what Ian is saying, but I don't think he's saying what you think he is, or I'm wrong. I have the same problem with Bjork, as moonie has said its simply just oh.. too 'forced'. Her earlier work was to my ears definitely a product of her, the recent output seems to be less honest in some regard. Kind of kooky for kookys sake in a way, and moreso kind of an attempt to be what she thinks she should be doing. Not saying its bad, by what I've seen of her recent biophilia stuff she puts on a bit of a mindblowing show. It first started going awry for me when it became painfully obvious that the collaborators she was chosing to work with (notably on remixes) were always the hip flavour of the moment in experimental music. Its always the perceived flavour of experimental music she choses too (perceived in a mainstreamy way) and not any genuine flavour of experimental music. In that, I don't believe she would have noticed them, found them, without them first attaining a good column inch or seven and an article in The Wire IYSWIM. The Death Grips remix kind of underlines that as well as writing it in bold Futura. I like Death Grips btw. To me it seems she's become a creative prisoner of her own image. What it is, is commercialism in a niche sense. An over identification with, and an over analysis of, her paying audience. I can see where you're thinking of going with your art/commercialism angle, but its not what I think Ian is saying. As far as art music and validity is concerned that shit discussion was tired when the NME et al used to wank on about it in the 80s/90s. An artist does what they do because they have to, thats it, thats their end. If it sells great, if it doesn't, oh well cos you can't stop making it anyway. Thats the only relationship an Artist can sensibly have with modern economics. The feel I think Ian is describing, which is what I get from Bjork, is that its all become second guessing how kooky/weird and avant she has to be to keep her 'bleeding edge' without losing her fans. Personally, I can glimpse a parallel universe where after The Sugarcubes she and Einar went on to become Die Antwoord. I wish I could step into that universe, it would be less desperate and suspicious to me. ;)
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Edited Nov 27, 2012, 02:04
Nov 27, 2012, 02:03
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stray wrote: To me it seems she's become a creative prisoner of her own image. Nutshell! I mean, if she ever had the inclination to make a classic quirk-pop dance track , or just a brill pop song for that matter, again (and I would like her too, I confess) could she actually do it without pressing the 'Irony' button I wonder? Hmmmm.
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spencer 3071 posts |
Edited Nov 27, 2012, 04:45
Nov 27, 2012, 04:27
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I do wonder if she's pursued "look at me, listen to me, I'm different, quirky and interesting" so relentlessly to the point of her output becoming its antithesis, predicatable, cliched, incapable of ever truly expressing emotion without a 'catch', or as you say, an ironic twist. Fair enough, she's got a fanbase, each to their own, but I don't think she's likely to produce something now that's going to make me join it...I like surprises, though. But, right now, what I've heard and seen doesn't move me. Quirky can equate to arid or the musical equivalent of a lopsided smile. Like I said at the start of this discussion, I don't think it's from the heart..or if it is, it's not an open one... the exuberance to me seems too mannered and calculated, the twist's bound to come; it's not raw to me, however shouty. I'm not engaged, more repelled. No, I'm not taking a swipe at anyone who likes her stuff, no need to froth. I appreciate she's gifted, but it's not for me. Unmoved. If others are, fine...but to me she is Kate Bush's counterpoint. I know who I prefer.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Nov 27, 2012, 10:40
Nov 27, 2012, 07:31
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Nail on head. She has become the art rock Madonna. Though to Madonna's credit she does tend to hire some of the people she borrows from and she often bigs people up in the press before having a rummage around in their oeuvre (the Mandalay albums and the Lavelle/Orbit record being good examples). Anyway thanks for putting my stuff into English!
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Nov 27, 2012, 09:23
Nov 27, 2012, 07:45
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jb lamptoast-morsley wrote: I kind of get where you are coming from, Ian - the culture of celebrity and the increasing commodifying of art in the 21st century Capitalist world. (how do we remedy the situation?) I just didn't quite understand why Bjork sparked it off. And as Keith said, your comment about Bjork becoming more popular the more obscure she became doesn't particularly ring true. Nothing unethical about selling art for as much as the artist wants to be paid for it. I want the things I love to be more popular not more obscure. Which is why I bang on for para after para about the stuff I stumble over that I think that is good. I think this is the key misunderstanding here. What I said was "She is now more famous than ever for being famous. In fact the more un-pop her work gets and the fewer records she sells the more famous she gets" There is a huge difference between being famous and being popular for what you produce. I think her music is irrelevant. It's now a side product of a wider celebrity. Like a lot of what Damien Hirst attaches his name to. In the end what I find problematic is not art being commodified but the celebrity of the artist becomming the main product. To paraphrase Rick Roderick, the reason she is a prime example of the post-modern and hyperreal is that she is now popular for being famous, an awful lot of people like the idea of liking her but clearly feel no need to buy her music. Her music isn't really popular at all but her popularity is.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Nov 27, 2012, 07:47
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keith a wrote: It's very of its time but I was a sucker for this disco record by Nona back in the day. If the term 'disco record' is offensive to anyone reading this, then best not play it! ; ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK5vizEzw7w Edit: But if you like tracks like Janet Jackson's Control then you might enjoy this, too. Thanks for that. Her vocal on "Bustin Out" is my big favourite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J4mCkIy3bs one of the best records Ze put out
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