Squid Tempest
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Re: Prog Britannia
Jan 08, 2009, 09:16
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Absolutely. It just wasn't in-depth enough was it? It seemed to me to be a very subjective view of the whole thing too.
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Dog 3000
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Edited Jan 08, 2009, 17:10
When prog met punk!
Jan 08, 2009, 17:09
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Seems to me the "punk vs. prog" years of 1976-1980-ish should actually be one of the most interesting parts of the story. The story of punk's reaction to prog is oft-told hyperbole, but how did prog react to punk? Responses varied from VDGG's "Vital" to ELP's "Love Beach"!!!
By saying the story "ends" in 1977, they're basically playing into that boring old Official History Of Rock peddled by Rolling Stone and NME, which is frankly more about STYLE than MUSIC.
The haircuts and clothes that were considered cool may have changed abruptly, but prog and punk have both persisted beyond their respective "chapters in the book", and both had roots that go back a long way before their Official Start Dates.
Journalists have an annoying tendency in general to try to impose "larger narratives" on events so that their "significance" can be "understood." But that really should be reserved for novelists and other fiction writers. The real world is a constant flow of different things happening at once, and there is no "master narrative of the history of music." It's a construct of TV documentaries as much as anything.
(Which is why I have such a particularly low opinion of most "rock journalists"! They couldn't make it as musicians or writers, so now they try to make a living telling people which records are "cool" . . . . when most of them are really just tools for record company marketing anyway . . . so pathetic!!)
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dave clarkson
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Re: Prog Britannia
Jan 08, 2009, 22:58
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...at 72 messages, this thread is slowly becoming longer than a track off tales of topographic oceans.
8)
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Moon Cat
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Re: Prog Britannia
Jan 09, 2009, 15:57
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I went for a chicken madras in the middle of it.
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machineryelf
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Re: Prog Britannia
Jan 09, 2009, 17:31
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and makes as much sense
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Dog 3000
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Re: Prog Britannia
Jan 09, 2009, 17:58
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Remember this classic? 212 posts on whether ELP is fit to even be reviewed around here . . .
http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/unsung/topic/19427/#212
. . . nothing starts an argument quite like "prog"!
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shanshee_allures
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Re: Prog Britannia
Jan 10, 2009, 09:47
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A belated hello to all this. Just stopped partying after the bells (I wish).
Anyway, did really enjoy all these shows, and it makes sense VDGG were not included, coz it does show how apart from it all they really were. Ok King Crimson had a certain meance, but Hammill's lot took it somewhere else. Infact they never even went there really. Perhaps Soft Machine spurred them on a bit to start with.
As for the rest...It's always comical to see Charles Shaar Murray get all hot and bothered about something he obviously feels threatened by (brushing his teeth for one), even although he pretends prog did all the running from punk. Shows what a sad insecure little blues bore he is. No. It was at it's arse end anyway, wasn't it? It went out with Rik Wakemen using props from It's A Knockout etc, punk achieved nowt there.
I can't say I'm much of a fan of 'prog', suppose Caravan have a nice pastoral vibe about them (the 'Grey and Pink' album I'm most familiar with), and there a couple of no bad Genesis tunes. Yes had quite a tough drum sound, didn't they? Still don't see myself ever going the pace with much of it. What the hell anyway, prog sort of came out of it a bit triumphant.
Wyatt's comments re how punk mistakenly reckons itself as some sort of musical subversion are bang on too. Most of these proggers 'unplayed' their instrumnets whereas with punk the 3 chord template was set and forever more they slavishly trundled over it. A few really great tunes ensued, but most of it was tosh.
Anyhow great telly and surprisingly refreshing all round:-)
x
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Deepinder Cheema
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Re: Prog Britannia
Jan 10, 2009, 10:33
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Shanshee....I'm impressed. Straight to the point with your analysis. Your dismissal of CSM is a gem. Trying to find music with that edge of menace is always a necessary search. Menace describes King Crimson and VDGG perfectly. I have always thought that there was a point when the term Prog splintered away from what is 'progressive music', that the former has become a pejorative term quite divorced from the aims behind finding a progressive way of doing things.
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shanshee_allures
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Re: Prog Britannia
Jan 10, 2009, 10:43
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Aw cheers!
We're keeping all these things in the telebox for posterity as there is something really enigmatic about it all, and I can't see as well a show being put together too soon.
Re the CSM syndrome even Peel was shown to be utterly, truly indignant and I thought 'why dude? Laugh it off if you must, don't be so angry!
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