Julian Cope presents Head Heritage

There is something in me that craves a return to having 400 or 500 great vinyl lps across the genres, binning off the cds and digital.

And, i know it's outside yr point that mainly relates to rock bands, but there are scenes where "learning to play" in any accepted sense, doesn't make any sense ... like noise, or a lot of electronica ... i mean, can Masonna "play", or Florian Hecker? or even Aphex Twin?

>>>The premise that started it all was Keith saying that " Idea's are far more important than musical ability will ever be". My argument is that at some point you need musical ability to bring ideas to fruition. That's all.

i know, i was being deliberately obstreperous ... but i'm w/ keith's prioritising - if you've not got that spark to start w/, forget it! i love that mark e smith idea that he's competing against bands full of people who'd be better suited to working in a bank.

>>>A no-chops-at-all indie band might get lucky once or even twice but at some point they need to learn to play to create sustained works or even a series of shorter ones.

or persist in their folly! see half japanese (ok ok, they did become slightly slicker as they went on, but jad fair's still pretty untrained) or even mark e smith (he didn't learn how to sing properly, he just kept on going + everyone else had to rearrange their ears to accommodate him) - now THAT'S the mark of an "artist".

And, i know it's outside yr point that mainly relates to rock bands, but there are scenes where "learning to play" in any accepted sense, doesn't make any sense ... like noise, or a lot of electronica ... i mean, can Masonna "play", or Florian Hecker? or even Aphex Twin?


>>>I hate 90% of U2s music but I totally respect their work ethic and bemoan the lack of it people who could have done more with what they had.

it's a good devil's advocate position, for sure ... but don't musos criticise U2 for not being much cop musically? received wisdom = the edge plays super-simple obvious things thru mountains of FX ... i've no idea myself.

well, there's nothing stopping you! why stop at 400 or 500? how about 40 or 50? 4 or 5?

after all, if you suddenly feel the urge to hear something, you cd prob download it for nowt, listen to it once, then delete it.

one of my great pleasures is taking a stack of CDs to a 2nd hand shop + trading 'em in for a small pile of vinyl (+ maybe even another CD or 2) + a small pile of notes, then going straight to the pub for a few beers. It's the only way i can keep my collection down to a physically + psychically manageable size.

do you feel any sort of affinity w/ bill drummond's current "all recorded music is dead" schtick? i'd guess we all do, to a degree...

I haven't read Drummond's book. What's he saying?

i haven't read it either, but his website used to have huge chunks of it on there ... just checked + he's taken 'em down ... guess they're in his new book now ... well, guess a man's gotta make a living!

there was some nice things re spending a whole year only listening to artists beginning w/ the letter "P", then a different letter for the next year, + general boredom w/ the easy availablitity of recorded music now.

here's link to preface, so you prob ge tthe gist = http://www.the17.org/opening_chapter.php

also check his no music day = http://www.nomusicday.com/2006/

his choir, The 17, doesn't perform to an audience, just themselves (as i understand it, there are 17 people in the choir, hence 17 tickets to each event) - he provides the score + a bit of a directing hend, then they record the piece to a Mac, listen back to it once then watch as it's deleted from the hard drive ... of course it's all conceptual art + stuff, but there's the germ of a good idea in there, + maybe a way out of much of the ennui that's making itself felt on this thread ... he's looking for ways to Make It Special again. Was it you Ian somewhere in this thread said a return to live music was a way out? you may have an ally ...

As much as I too kinda dislike Ians point about it's importance I reckon he has a point in as much that some sort of (albeit only basic) understanding of music theory is required, even if you're just knocking out soundscapes and edited found sound collages. The physics of sound and music production is however a more important skill in electronica than playing ability, definitely. Mind you, a mixer, decks, racks etc are instruments as far as I'm concerned, and can be played as such.

I agree totally. I am not advocating some muso hegemony where Malmsteen and Kenny G gain extra credit for the number of hours they put into practicing their instruments regardless of how boring their output is.

What I am trying to say is that knowing what the rules are can make you a more effective rule-breaker and on that rare occasion you need to know which chord will say the exact thing you want to say musically at that point in time then it can be good to have that in your locker too. Saves time you don't have to spend trying all the other combinations. Doesn't mean you have to resort to cliche. Though I admit that a lot of schooled musicians do exactly that.

Same applies to technologies. Learning what all the knobs do doesn't mean you need to use them all all the time which is the Trevor Rabin / Mark King / Kenny G problem. They are too concerned with letting us know how clever they are. That's their number one aim in life.

I would put taste and the ability to self-edit over learned musical ability but I wouldn't undervalue the do ray me. Even if you fancy chucking the whole 12 tone thing in the nearest bin and going microntonal.