|
U-Know! Forum » TTIP petition to sign |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
|
Rhiannon 5291 posts |
May 04, 2016, 08:51
|
||
|
So are you saying we should get out of Europe because we don't want to become embroiled in TTIP? I'm not sure the two things would be mutually exclusive, could we not sign up anyway? sorry if I'm being dense.
|
|||
Joolio Geordio 1300 posts |
May 04, 2016, 14:03
|
||
If we remain in Europe are we not being railroaded into TTIP by default because the EU is pushing hard for it? Is Cameron against it? It would appear not? He could seek assurances that the NHS is safeguarded and it and the government won't be open to legal action from US companies via the Corporate Court over decisions that potentially impact on their profits, but he doesn't. He wants to privatise it. Why is Obama is over here on a pro EU ticket while saying if you leave get to the back of the queue when trade negotiations come around? That's a threat! I would sooner stay in Europe but a fair Europe which isn't selling itself out to big business and lax laws ruling pharmaceuticals, food safety, and the privatisation of essential public services. It concerns me hugely that this is being negotiated in absolute secrecy with no consultation of the electorate. This is a massive game changer. The EU started as a trade zone and ended up as a political entity. The same thing will happen again but we are conceding power to big business. To me a world where we are in TTIP looks scary. If exiting the EU is the only way to prevent it happening should we not take it because we won't get a choice later or another chance to try to change things.
|
|||
|
Rhiannon 5291 posts |
May 04, 2016, 18:47
|
||
|
I take your point. If we vote to stay, we will indeed probably get whatever TTIP deal is on the cards. And that would not be good. Especially as you say that it's all being done so secretively, god knows what's being agreed. But I fear that'd be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I fear that if we leave it'll be worse for the ordinary person in this country for lots of reasons ie erosion of workers rights and human rights (hard won stuff). And that if we lose all those existing trade connections there'll be a recession again and that means a good excuse for even more austerity, even more cuts to the health system and education and anything that keeps this place civilised. And voting to leave wouldn't stop the government signing their own ttip style agreement, surely? anyway that's my take on it.
|
|||
|
Joolio Geordio 1300 posts |
Edited May 04, 2016, 23:31
May 04, 2016, 23:28
|
||
|
Apologies if you have seen this already http://waronwant.org/ttip And this http://waronwant.org/media/ttip-leak-end-road
|
|||
|
Rhiannon 5291 posts |
May 05, 2016, 08:35
|
||
|
That's very interesting. The latter mentions how the French and Germans are trying to distance themselves from it, and the growing hope that this is the beginning of the end for it. But you see that would suggest to me that the French and Germans have got some sense. Whereas Mr Cameron actually loves all the deregulation for big business. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/25/ttip-vote-brexit-barack-obama-leave-eu-trade-deal I assume (perhaps wrongly) that you're still coming at the Brexit option from a left-wing standpoint? But we'd still have Cameron in charge if we left (or some idiot like him) at least for a while. I don't feel safe that if we did leave the EU to get out of TTIP, the tories wouldn't somehow catch us up in the whole race to the bottom thing anyway. So I'm clinging to the idea that if we stuck to Europe, at least we'd have a chance of 'the wisdom of crowds' thing, and the added support of socialists in other countries. Hmm. But I can see what you're saying, if the EU does vote for TTIP then I want no part of that. It'd be good to know what was going to happen about TTIP first before the referendum is held here. But I assume that's not going to happen. It's tricky isn't it. But my gut still says we have more safeguards against shit happening (including being inflicted by our own government) if we're in the EU. I could not bring myself to vote 'out', because I'm sure we'd be more likely to have to retain environmental protections and workers' rights etc, if we stay in. Because I don't think being on our own will save us from our government's determination to undermine all these things anyway, and we won't have the weight of Europe to pull us into line. We could end up being worse off than someone that signed TTIP, potentially? sorry for the stream of consciousness
|
|||
|
Joolio Geordio 1300 posts |
May 05, 2016, 11:48
|
||
|
Hi Yes you are absolutely correct I am coming at it from a left wing perspective. As a Geordie (albeit in exile) it's in the blood! The whole BREXIT issue is the fear of the unknown. Equally once we are in TTIP we won't be able to get out and to me what it offers seems worse than an EU exit. If you haven't yet read some of the other articles on the War on Want website. The way it is being ushered in without consulting us is very underhand and the lack of media coverage is worrying which suggests if the electorate had a choice they would reject it and Cameron knows it. The Tories won't be in power forever but while they are they are clearly not looking out for the best interests of the voters, but when did they ever.
|
|||
Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
May 05, 2016, 13:57
|
||
|
If we leave the EU Cameron will certainly sign us up to this, however there are a number of EU countries (including France) who oppose it, so staying in is a better way to ensure we don't sign up to this. Once we're in there's no getting out without totally bankrupting the country
|
|||
|
Joolio Geordio 1300 posts |
May 05, 2016, 16:48
|
||
|
Captain Starlet wrote: If we leave the EU Cameron will certainly sign us up to this, however there are a number of EU countries (including France) who oppose it, so staying in is a better way to ensure we don't sign up to this. Once we're in there's no getting out without totally bankrupting the country As its the EU negotiating it I would assume it would be the EU signing it on behalf of member states not each state signing individually so I don't think staying in would help to be honest. But yes however we get assimilated into TTIP getting out will be impossible. What I could see happening is we join it without a referendum and then a couple of years down the line Cameron holds a referendum on whether we stay in - which is the same as what happened when we joined the then Common Market in 73.
|
|||
|
Joolio Geordio 1300 posts |
May 06, 2016, 09:55
|
||
|
Today's essential reading http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/05/protest-never-changes-anything-derailing-ttip-trade-agreement
|
|||
|
Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
May 06, 2016, 14:25
|
||
Interesting how all that 'scaremongering' about it is now justified
|
| Pages: 3 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| U-Know! Forum Index | |
