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U-Know! Forum » Joey Barton - If I were PM... |
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thesweetcheat 6213 posts |
Feb 22, 2015, 18:24
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"... I would privatise religion. All public money would be withdrawn from religion. Taxpayers money will cease to sponsor religion in any and every form. I would dis-establish the Church of England. There should not be an official state religion. Church of England bishops will lose their right to hold unelected positions in our House of Lords. I would cease to subsidise the livelihoods of Church of England bishops and priests." http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/if-i-were-prime-minister-i-would-privatise-religion-10060100.html
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Feb 22, 2015, 19:19
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I wasn't aware the UK had a state religion being multicultural! The Church is also predominantly funded from donations and church services https://www.churchofengland.org/about-us/funding.aspx#where Just as well he'll never be PM, mind you he'd make a good tory with that level of education!
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Deepinder Cheema 1972 posts |
Edited Feb 23, 2015, 12:21
Feb 23, 2015, 12:20
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Where's he getting his idea's from ?.. I thought they stopped making Bazooka Joe bubble gum and their inserts a long time ago
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Sin Agog 2253 posts |
Feb 23, 2015, 12:58
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The church is actually the main provider for the homeless in England right now. I have my problems with it, but there needs to be an alternative institution that isn't in the hands of big biznezz. That recent letter from the Church of England might have appealed to Barton, as it addressed such topics as: "political leaders resorting to aiming 'sterile arguments' at swing voters", sticking with the EU, scrapping the Trident missile system, the widening gap of the class system, “an ugly undercurrent of racism”, enforcing a living wage... I'm sure there are a whole heavenly host of incorrigible squares in the C of E, but it seems to also be a barometer of how far to the right society has swung if the relatively static church now sounds pinko.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Feb 24, 2015, 12:30
Feb 24, 2015, 12:29
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Captain Starlet wrote: I wasn't aware the UK had a state religion being multicultural! The Church is also predominantly funded from donations and church services https://www.churchofengland.org/about-us/funding.aspx#where Just as well he'll never be PM, mind you he'd make a good tory with that level of education! Maybe not in Scotland but in England Anglicanism is the state religion. That is why we have bishops in the Lords and the Presbyterian Church of Scotland has none. Not sure why Wales and Northern Ireland don't. I am not in favour of a state religion having political representation in a house that produces or rubber stamps policy.
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Feb 24, 2015, 18:10
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Still saying that it may only be a England state religion, it's still not a UK state religion. In England there is the Church of England whereas we in Wales have the Church in Wales.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Edited Feb 25, 2015, 03:32
Feb 25, 2015, 02:45
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Sin Agog wrote: The church is actually the main provider for the homeless in England right now. I have my problems with it, but there needs to be an alternative institution that isn't in the hands of big biznezz. That recent letter from the Church of England might have appealed to Barton, as it addressed such topics as: "political leaders resorting to aiming 'sterile arguments' at swing voters", sticking with the EU, scrapping the Trident missile system, the widening gap of the class system, “an ugly undercurrent of racism”, enforcing a living wage... I'm sure there are a whole heavenly host of incorrigible squares in the C of E, but it seems to also be a barometer of how far to the right society has swung if the relatively static church now sounds pinko. Some years ago I was chatting with an elderly gentleman as we both waited to see a doctor in a hospital in Cork. It turns out he was himself a retired doctor and was delighting in telling me horror stories about surgery in 1950s Ireland. He paused at one stage, though, and pointed towards a - let's say... less than 100% clean - corner of the waiting room. "That would never have been allowed happen when the nuns ran the hospitals", he commented, "Difficult women at times, but the place was always spotless when they were in control". Or something along those lines. And I honestly feel he was revealing, in microcosm, a very real truth about the secularisation of society. And one that's far from trivial. You will find nobody less supportive of the role of Catholicism in Irish society than me. The Christian Brothers had me in their clutches for most of my childhood and I will never forgive them. But religion (and religious orders) fulfilled other roles in society... not just the horrible ones we all know about today. And as those religions and clergy have receded, I don't believe we have come close to adequately replacing those vital roles they played. The hospitals are now cleaned by minimum-wage contract workers. They do about as good a job as you or I would do, after a year of cleaning hospitals for minimum wage. In other words... an adequate one. On the other hand, it turns out, if someone honestly believes they are doing God's Work, the hospitals are much cleaner (and therefore categorically better all round). I don't know what the solution is (though I'm pretty sure it's not "chuck another 30 cent on top of the minimum wage"). Even if we wanted to return to a religious society (and we don't), I doubt we could. But although getting rid of (or starting to) the poisonous guilt and twisted cruelty of Irish Catholicism is hardly a project one would oppose... I'm not sure replacing cathedrals with shopping malls, charity with ethical consumerism and vocations with temp jobs is turning out too well for us. Is there a third option?
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Feb 25, 2015, 09:34
Feb 25, 2015, 08:39
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Captain Starlet wrote: Still saying that it may only be a England state religion, it's still not a UK state religion. In England there is the Church of England whereas we in Wales have the Church in Wales. I hear you. Unfortunately given that the Anglican church has a guaranteed role in the production of new legislation for the whole of the UK then it is effectively your state religion too!
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Feb 25, 2015, 08:55
Feb 25, 2015, 08:49
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grufty jim wrote: Is there a third option? Despite being an almost life long atheist my moral framework was (and remains) hugely influenced by religious teaching and such in junior school in the 1960s. In the end there was probably not a huge difference between what I took from Bible stories, from boiled down Homer, from Aesop and from say the Lancelyn Green books of Egyptian, Greek and Norse myths. The power of story-telling to convey the how-are-we-to-live lessons was hugely influential and what I remembered of the Bible stories was not the supernatural stuff but how Jesus was reported to have carried himself as a moralist. Point being that we have possibly lost something here with the demotion of religious education in a secular context (and study of the classical world for that matter) that can be convey life lessons without the fear and brimstone.
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drewbhoy 2557 posts |
Feb 25, 2015, 09:20
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IanB wrote: Captain Starlet wrote: I wasn't aware the UK had a state religion being multicultural! The Church is also predominantly funded from donations and church services https://www.churchofengland.org/about-us/funding.aspx#where Just as well he'll never be PM, mind you he'd make a good tory with that level of education! Maybe not in Scotland but in England Anglicanism is the state religion. That is why we have bishops in the Lords and the Presbyterian Church of Scotland has none. Not sure why Wales and Northern Ireland don't. I am not in favour of a state religion having political representation in a house that produces or rubber stamps policy. I certainly know the Church Of Scotland does food banks like a lot of churches south of the border. This should be applauded but makes me feel ashamed as we had a chance recently to probably almost cure this. Seemingly some like this idea of the poor and food banks and voted NO.
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