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U-Know! Forum » Homeopathic overdose protest in Boots |
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 27, 2010, 13:05
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How strange... Homeopathy is definitely a 'lefty-liberal' thing in this country. I think it's all a load of crap, myself. However, it's no myth that a great deal of what constitutes healing hinges on one's mental state, so if people want to believe in it, I'm not going to tell them different. My mother, who's a pretty rational, no-nonsense person, swears by things like acupuncture and magnets in the treatment of her aches and pains. I certainly wouldn't argue that Western medicine is beyond reproach... so much of it is designed to wait until people get chronically ill and then charge a fortune to merely hold the symptoms of disease at bay. And a lot of what the pharmaceutical companies push on us in the name of 'science' is fucking toxic... just listen to the list of side effects that go along with almost any new 'wonder drug' that they produce.
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jan 27, 2010, 16:06
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handofdave wrote: I certainly wouldn't argue that Western medicine is beyond reproach... i don't think anyone is. handofdave wrote: so if people want to believe in it, I'm not going to tell them different. People can believe whatever crap they like, but the country's leading pharmacist has a duty to act on what we know. When they've seen the evidence and concede that homeopathic pills are just nibs of sugar, they should stop selling them as medicine. handofdave wrote: My mother, who's a pretty rational, no-nonsense person, swears by things like acupuncture and magnets in the treatment of her aches and pains. There's some evidence for acupuncture working. I've no idea about magnets. But, powerful as the placebo effect is at curing, and free as your mom is to think what she likes, medical professionals shouldn't be pimping stuff to her they know has no medicinal value; especially when she could be getting something that does work instead.
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dee 1955 posts |
Jan 27, 2010, 17:19
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Pathetic protest imo. Homeopathy can work for some if you get the 'right' remedy.
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Edited Jan 27, 2010, 17:57
Jan 27, 2010, 17:55
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dee wrote: Pathetic protest imo. Homeopathy can work for some if you get the 'right' remedy. I deliberately avoided this thread until I saw your post. I have personal experience of alternative/complimentary medicine and it has my full respect. I don't see a dichotomy, just a lack of knowledge and thorough understanding, and if it is a placebo, as the more enlightened cynics suggest, than that is surely a good thing. Another form of healing. Aspirin comes form tree bark etc, aboriginal peoples still use herbal medicines etc, as did our Ancestors. It's amazing how we made it this far without Phramaceutical hegemony! I say that as someone who saw a loved one cured by standard medicine, for which I will always be utterly grateful. It's not a question of either/or, it's a holistic approach that need s to be taken a little more seriously, with the quasi/false 'New Age' bandwagon sharks shown the boot. EDIT: That's my penny's worth.
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 27, 2010, 18:27
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Merrick wrote: handofdave wrote: so if people want to believe in it, I'm not going to tell them different. People can believe whatever crap they like, but the country's leading pharmacist has a duty to act on what we know. When they've seen the evidence and concede that homeopathic pills are just nibs of sugar, they should stop selling them as medicine. If your argument is that the insurance/public health system shouldn't be paying for it, I agree with you. At the same time, I have to point out that big pharma, with its giant profits, has (in the USA anyhow) muscled their way into a position where they have enormous control over the healthcare system. Their leverage allows them to attack nontraditional medicine's legality and grant themselves power over what doctors prescribe. As a result, we've got people going broke paying for insanely expensive drugs that carry dangerous side effects... admittedly, some effective, but some not so much. Am I against quackery? Yes. Am I also against corporate seizure of the doctor-patient relationship? Oh yes indeed.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jan 27, 2010, 18:54
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The bottom line is this, is it not? Boots is so well known it is seen as almost an extension of the NHS and as such is believed to be supplying "proper" medicine blessed by science and the medical establishment. But on the very next shelf it is selling loads of different bottles of pure water with crazy, unscientific, impossible claims attached. Seems wrong to me. Seems like money is talking. How about, as well as grumbling about Big Pharma you also rail about Big Phibber? ;)
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jan 27, 2010, 19:05
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handofdave wrote: If your argument is that the insurance/public health system shouldn't be paying for it, I agree with you. That's not my argument, no. My argument is that the nation's most trusted pharmacy has a duty to act responsibly as medical professionals, and should not sell sugar in containers that claim is is medicine. handofdave wrote: At the same time, I have to point out that big pharma, with its giant profits, has (in the USA anyhow) muscled their way into a position where they have enormous control over the healthcare system. I totally agree. We should to proper trials on all manner of medical approaches and discern what works and what doesn't. Big Pharma is certainly guilty of profiteering. Mind you, the profits margin on homeopathic sugar nibs is far greater.
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Popel Vooje 5373 posts |
Jan 27, 2010, 19:07
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handofdave wrote: Merrick wrote: handofdave wrote: so if people want to believe in it, I'm not going to tell them different. People can believe whatever crap they like, but the country's leading pharmacist has a duty to act on what we know. When they've seen the evidence and concede that homeopathic pills are just nibs of sugar, they should stop selling them as medicine. If your argument is that the insurance/public health system shouldn't be paying for it, I agree with you. At the same time, I have to point out that big pharma, with its giant profits, has (in the USA anyhow) muscled their way into a position where they have enormous control over the healthcare system. Their leverage allows them to attack nontraditional medicine's legality and grant themselves power over what doctors prescribe. As a result, we've got people going broke paying for insanely expensive drugs that carry dangerous side effects... admittedly, some effective, but some not so much. Am I against quackery? Yes. Am I also against corporate seizure of the doctor-patient relationship? Oh yes indeed. Isn't this part of the reason why internet pharmacies with highly questionable legal status are making such a killing by making generics cheaply available over there (and over here, for that matter)? Successive US presidents have paid lip service to the importance of free enterprise - maybe this is an example of free market capitalism working against the agendas of companies and politicians who so vocally support it. Can't say I'll be losing any sleep over that, personally.
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jan 27, 2010, 19:20
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dee wrote: Pathetic protest imo. Homeopathy can work for some if you get the 'right' remedy. It works no better than a placebo. That's because it is a placebo. To say it has genuine medicinal properties is to defy not only the results of studies of homeopathic remedies but also our understanding of chemistry and physics. Sea Cat, I think we need to sift what you say a bit. The Sea Cat wrote: I have personal experience of alternative/complimentary medicine I think it's amazing how, just as in agriculture we have 'conventional' farming meaning a chemically intensive method a few decades old that even now is not how most of the world does it, we also have 'conventional' medicine and everything else is 'alternative'. As you rightly point out The Sea Cat wrote: Aspirin comes form tree bark etc, aboriginal peoples still use herbal medicines etc, Herbal medicines form the basis - often the direct feedstock - of many pharmaceutical medicines. There is no doubting the efficacy of many of them, it's proven. There is a contradiction in saying alternative medicine has your full respect and that we need to show the sharks the boot. Many alternative medicines are quackery and should be clearly shown to be such. The Sea Cat wrote: if it is a placebo, as the more enlightened cynics suggest, than that is surely a good thing. Another form of healing. But all quack medicines can have a placebo effect. That is not a good thing; placebo rarely works for serious conditions, and doesn't score very highly on anything. Yet if people are told these things will work they will, in some cases, avoid seeking treatments that are effective. People suffer and die for this. Many homeopaths will happily send you into a malaria zone armed only with a little pot of sugar nibs. Lumping herbalism, crystal healing, homeopathy, acupuncture and the power of positive thought all in together as 'alternative medicine' doesn't help anyone reach the truth.
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dee 1955 posts |
Jan 28, 2010, 14:00
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Sorry Merrick, I forgot that you know everything
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