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U-Know! Forum » Catholic's try to make out it's all in the past!!!! |
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Nov 27, 2009, 08:17
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sanshee wrote: I recently read a book called 'The God Squad' by Paddy Doyle. Sent to a nun-run As soon as I got to that part I had Pamplona type images of angry nuns chasing young men through the streets of Ballykissangel.
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sanshee 1080 posts |
Edited Nov 27, 2009, 10:19
Nov 27, 2009, 10:19
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Yes, but it's not just the 'paedophile' element. Lots of physical abuse went on. And of course it can happen anywhere and for any reason, but that's not the point. For example, re the Plymouth nursery...there was no 'institutional' cover up at all, so it's different. I've read quite a bit about women whose babies were taken from them, these women imprisoned and slaved, deemed unfit coz they were unmarried. All in real living memory too. The whole idea that a religion (any religion) can absolve anyone of anything through a select few rhyming off some chants here and there terrifies me. x
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sanshee 1080 posts |
Nov 27, 2009, 10:41
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Hehe. I did meet a very, very nice nun as a teen, spoke to her about some personal woes. However, this is the truth. She asked me my phone number, and not wanting her to phone I made one up, and ended up, unwittingly, giving her the number of her own gaffe! Truth. I swear. To eh, whoever. :-) x
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Daminxa 1415 posts |
Nov 27, 2009, 12:58
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Yes, all that happened, but the point I'm making is it's not just the Catholic Church! I'm not absolving them from anything, I think they're wholly corrupt, but so are other organisations, religious or otherwise. And if people find comfort in religion, be it Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism or whatever, fair fucks to them. Others may find comfort in alcohol or cannabis - is that any better? And is it any better that there wasn't an institutional cover-up in Plymouth? The point I'm making is that those children were still abused, and nothing will ever change that fact. As I say, I'm not here to defend the Catholic Church, but focusing on that particular organisation as a hot-bed of child abuse isn't, I don't think, particularly helpful, because it's going on elsewhere too.
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Nov 27, 2009, 13:06
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Daminxa wrote: Yes, all that happened, but the point I'm making is it's not just the Catholic Church! I'm not absolving them from anything, I think they're wholly corrupt, but so are other organisations, religious or otherwise. And if people find comfort in religion, be it Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism or whatever, fair fucks to them. Others may find comfort in alcohol or cannabis - is that any better? And is it any better that there wasn't an institutional cover-up in Plymouth? The point I'm making is that those children were still abused, and nothing will ever change that fact. As I say, I'm not here to defend the Catholic Church, but focusing on that particular organisation as a hot-bed of child abuse isn't, I don't think, particularly helpful, because it's going on elsewhere too. Exactly.
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sanshee 1080 posts |
Edited Nov 30, 2009, 11:56
Nov 30, 2009, 11:31
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Daminxa wrote: Yes, all that happened, but the point I'm making is it's not just the Catholic Church! I'm not absolving them from anything, I think they're wholly corrupt, but so are other organisations, religious or otherwise. I haven't once suggested child abuse is exclusive to 'the Catholic church', but that is what this thread is about. I don't care what people believe or don't. Up to them. Daminxa wrote: And is it any better that there wasn't an institutional cover-up in Plymouth? The point I'm making is that those children were still abused, and nothing will ever change that fact. I think it's incrediby important. How can it not be? You'd be as well telling the parents of those nursery children not to want justice for what's happened, that it's all in the past. But thankfully that woman was arrested, these abuses within The Church were known at state level and all were left to their own devices. Hell it was so pernicious some Priests were ex-communicated for expressing their concerns, and knowledge went all the way up to Vatican. Of course abuse will happen, I don't think much can prevent it, but when it does, generally, there is a desire to root it out, and at least try for reparation. Unless there exists an instiutional cover up! Giving greater scope for it to continue. The only reason this has came to light is because in the past two decades people have decided to write/speak about their experiences. It could otherwise possibly still, with 'full blessings', be going on to this day. x
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Daminxa 1415 posts |
Nov 30, 2009, 13:55
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Obviously it's appalling that there has been such a massive institutional cover-up, but I think most people know the extent to which this has happened throughout the Catholic Church - every so-called-comic has made cheap jibes to that effect. You can cover up all you like, but eventually someone will speak up (which, incidentally, those kids in Plymouth could not, given their age AND I doubt that dreadful woman will serve a term befitting her crime). I have infinite respect for those that were abused that have shed light on this torrid affair. I just think it's important to remember (and I'm not accusing you or anyone else of the contrary) that not all priests are paedophiles and there are many millions of people all over the world that gain considerable spiritual comfort from their religion. I think it's wrong that the whole organisation gets 'tarred with the same brush' so to speak. There are plenty of priests, surely, that have never so much as thought of committing child abuse and there are many Catholics that have never experienced any abuse at all. Once again, I'm not excusing what has happened and yes, it's truly disgusting that being a Catholic priest seems to offer you some ghastly form of diplomatic immunity and make all your crimes 'disappear'. I'm not denying any of that for a moment. I just don't like the idea of a whole organisation being rotten to the core because some of them are complete bastards with no regard for the real meaning of the Christian religion. Those individuals, whether they've committed the crimes or covered the crimes up, have no business in religion or indeed society, they should be locked up. I just don't think it's all of them is all.
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dodge one 1242 posts |
Nov 30, 2009, 14:15
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Daminxa, if you are wondering if even 1 person understands what you are saying, i raise my hand. The Catholic church is comprised of over 1 BILLION members. 1/6th of our planets population and 1/2 the christian base. As insular a world as the catholic clergy society is, i seriously doubt that the # of pedophiles and abuses come anywhere near the figures that could be tabulated from national and local abuse statistics, that could be compiled from ANY country's law enforcement officials, and have NOTHING to do with any church.{sorry about gigantic run-on sentence. I never told anyone i was a writer.}{Blushing emoticon smiley thingy} That is, if the given country is honest enough{or care's enough too} to offer up those kind horrific figures. Lot's that gets swept under the rug. In all walks of life.
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Nov 30, 2009, 16:51
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Daminxa wrote: Obviously it's appalling that there has been such a massive institutional cover-up, but I think most people know the extent to which this has happened throughout the Catholic Church - every so-called-comic has made cheap jibes to that effect. You can cover up all you like, but eventually someone will speak up (which, incidentally, those kids in Plymouth could not, given their age AND I doubt that dreadful woman will serve a term befitting her crime). I have infinite respect for those that were abused that have shed light on this torrid affair. I just think it's important to remember (and I'm not accusing you or anyone else of the contrary) that not all priests are paedophiles and there are many millions of people all over the world that gain considerable spiritual comfort from their religion. I think it's wrong that the whole organisation gets 'tarred with the same brush' so to speak. There are plenty of priests, surely, that have never so much as thought of committing child abuse and there are many Catholics that have never experienced any abuse at all. Once again, I'm not excusing what has happened and yes, it's truly disgusting that being a Catholic priest seems to offer you some ghastly form of diplomatic immunity and make all your crimes 'disappear'. I'm not denying any of that for a moment. I just don't like the idea of a whole organisation being rotten to the core because some of them are complete bastards with no regard for the real meaning of the Christian religion. Those individuals, whether they've committed the crimes or covered the crimes up, have no business in religion or indeed society, they should be locked up. I just don't think it's all of them is all. Again, Exactly.
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bladup 1986 posts |
Nov 30, 2009, 17:42
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No the main problem with the catholic church is the offering forgiveness to unforgivible things, which lies in the fact that the priests themselves believe they are god and can offer said forgiveness, which makes the catholic church a very very WELCOMING place for paedophiles, i would go as far as saying every catholic church in the whole world is harbouring paedophiles under it's roofs, and if it was that bad in dublin i can't begin to imagine how bad it must be in the rest of ireland {not to mention portugal and the like!!].
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