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PMM 3155 posts |
Edited Jul 03, 2009, 11:59
Jul 03, 2009, 11:51
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0036wf7/Health_Check_Portugal_Health/ Portugal decriminalised just about everything eight years ago. It's not been a perfect success, but the world hasn't ended either. I think you'll probably need to be in the UK to follow the link properly. I might record it and share it somehow later for those that can't access it. Time magazine also reported recently. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
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Squid Tempest 8763 posts |
Jul 03, 2009, 14:06
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That was on the news last night. Interesting to hear a positive decriminalisation story in the national media for a change. I had no idea that had happened in Portugal - was it in the UK news at the time?
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Popel Vooje 5373 posts |
Jul 03, 2009, 16:22
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I vaguely remember it being reported, but not in much depth. It was legal to carry a small amount of hash or weed for personal use in Spain between the late 80s and the start of the millenium too, but sadly it's been outlawed again now. I don't know how rigorously it's enforced there now though. Re. Portugal - I think I've just decided where I'm going to live when I retire.
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jul 06, 2009, 11:42
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It completely passed me by at the time too, I've only just heard of it this last week or so. Numbers in rehab goes up, drug deaths go down, use of all drugs among young people goes down. In the UK the argument about the reclassification of cannabis all had the underlying assumption that stronger penalties means less use, and it just doesn't. Use went down after downgrading but even that's not the full story. Use was going down before and continued after. Cannabis use in the Netherlands went down for six years after decriminalisation and after that only went up in line with use in prohibitionist countries. In Switzerland, their heroin prescription programme has made the numbers of deaths plummet, numbers on benefits halve, the number in work double, and the number using crime to fund their addiction go from around 80% to less than 10%. But remember kids, anyone who suggests that this proven policy actually works is a conspiracy by druglords. It must be true, in the european election leaflet Labour said that the LibDems policy of ending incarceration for possession of cannabis was them being 'soft on crime'. Surely they wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
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pooley 501 posts |
Edited Jul 06, 2009, 14:09
Jul 06, 2009, 14:09
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Merrick wrote: It completely passed me by at the time too, I've only just heard of it this last week or so. Numbers in rehab goes up, drug deaths go down, use of all drugs among young people goes down. In the UK the argument about the reclassification of cannabis all had the underlying assumption that stronger penalties means less use, and it just doesn't. Use went down after downgrading but even that's not the full story. Use was going down before and continued after. Cannabis use in the Netherlands went down for six years after decriminalisation and after that only went up in line with use in prohibitionist countries. In Switzerland, their heroin prescription programme has made the numbers of deaths plummet, numbers on benefits halve, the number in work double, and the number using crime to fund their addiction go from around 80% to less than 10%. But remember kids, anyone who suggests that this proven policy actually works is a conspiracy by druglords. It must be true, in the european election leaflet Labour said that the LibDems policy of ending incarceration for possession of cannabis was them being 'soft on crime'. Surely they wouldn't print it if it wasn't true. Isn't it odd that no one bothers to work out the air miles on their drug use? Surely the green option would be to give up?
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jul 06, 2009, 14:23
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There's a huge carbon footprint on cannabis, certainly. It's either come a long way or, more common these days, is grown in the UK using phenomenally power-hungry set-ups. Cocaine seemingly stands way above the rest. It's responsible for huge deforestation. The American-funded herbicide sprays can't be used in areas covered by national park. So the growers have moved into there and cleared the trees. The Independent did one of their front page splashes on it three years ago http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/colombia-the-real-victim-in-failed-war-on-drugs-473931.html And George Monbiot did a piece about it last week http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2009/06/30/help-addicts-but-lock-up-the-casual-users-of-cocaine/ Or, as the vice president of Colombia asserts, 'Every time you consume one gram of cocaine, you are destroying 4.4 square metres of Colombian rainforest' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/colombian-vps-stark-message-for-britains-middleclass-drug-users-1024613.html
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pooley 501 posts |
Jul 06, 2009, 19:51
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Merrick wrote: There's a huge carbon footprint on cannabis, certainly. It's either come a long way or, more common these days, is grown in the UK using phenomenally power-hungry set-ups. Cocaine seemingly stands way above the rest. It's responsible for huge deforestation. The American-funded herbicide sprays can't be used in areas covered by national park. So the growers have moved into there and cleared the trees. The Independent did one of their front page splashes on it three years ago http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/colombia-the-real-victim-in-failed-war-on-drugs-473931.html And George Monbiot did a piece about it last week http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2009/06/30/help-addicts-but-lock-up-the-casual-users-of-cocaine/ Or, as the vice president of Colombia asserts, 'Every time you consume one gram of cocaine, you are destroying 4.4 square metres of Colombian rainforest' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/colombian-vps-stark-message-for-britains-middleclass-drug-users-1024613.html It was a fairly glib comment I made, but those statistics are awful. I abstain these days, but my footprint is dreadful in other ways
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jul 07, 2009, 20:50
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pooley wrote: It was a fairly glib comment I made but making a really valid point. As Monbiot says, there are people who'd only drink fairtrade coffee and look down their nose at anyone doing otherwise, while hoofing *up* their nose with some of the most barbarically produced substances imaginable. It's kind of like an ethical counterpart to the way a lot of countercultural folks don't trust pharmaceutical medicines or chemical foodstuffs, but are quite happy to swallow illegal drugs that could be made from and cut with all kinds of cack.
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Popel Vooje 5373 posts |
Edited Jul 09, 2009, 16:48
Jul 07, 2009, 23:02
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That's true, as is your point about home-grown cannabis. Always thought cocaine was a rotten drug anyway - anyone I know who's taken it regularly for a prolonged period of time seems to have become increasingly arrogant and egocentric as a result. Never cared for it myself - so I'm in an advantageous position to moralise, admittedly - but it's definitely caused more misery than it's worth , especially in the countries whose economies are dependant on it. To get back to the issue of homegrown weed - I dabbled that for a while in the late 90s, but gave up once I realised that the wattage used - and our bill - had increased almost twofold. This was just the result of setting up one mercury lamp in a space at the top of my wardrobe, so God knows how much power an entire greenhouse would consume. The inevitable increase in carbon emissions was the main reason I stopped, along with other factors - dope plants encourage spider mites to breed (not a good thing if you're an arachnophobe like me) plus I thought our electricity supplier might notice the increase in our bill and tip off the police (sounds paranoid in theory, but I know one person who got caught this way). One side effect of cannabis being illegal throughout most of the world is that it's much harder to find reliable data about the conditions in which it's produced and consumed than it would be for cigarettes and booze.
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jul 08, 2009, 10:33
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Popel Vooje wrote: Always thought cocaine was a rotten drug anyway - anyone I know who's taken it regularly for a prolonged period of time seems to have become increasingly arrogant and egocentric as a result. It's one of the great chicken and egg questions. Does coke turn you in to a shallow gabbling self-centred twat, or is it that people who aren't latent gabbling self-centred twats get bored of it? Popel Vooje wrote: it's definitely caused more misery than it's worth , especially in the countries whose economies are dependant on it. there is a lot of truth there, but then it can also provide a massive dependable income to those who farm it too, more than other crops. Popel Vooje wrote: dope plants encourage spider mites to breed (not a good thing if you're an arachnophobe like me) As I understand it, spider mites are a problem with indoor growth because the spiders that would eat them in the wild *aren't* around. Popel Vooje wrote: plus I thought our electricity supplier might notice the increase in our bill and tip off the police (sounds paranoid in theory, but I know one person who got caught been caught this way). That definitely happens. Which is why many home growers bypass the meter - free leccy and no telltale signs to the suppliers. Popel Vooje wrote: One side effect of cannabis being illegal throughout most of the world is that it's much harder to find reliable data about the conditions in which it's produced and consumed than it would be for cigarettes and booze. Yep. Who knows what fertilisers and pesticides are used. And as most agricultural chemicals aren't produced for crops that get smoked, they haven't been tested to see what happens when they are. Imagine legalised drugs: fair trade cocaine, organic cannabis!
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