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Tories and unemployment benefits
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Moon Cat
9577 posts

Edited Aug 19, 2008, 16:49
Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 16:06
The training I was offered was as follows - a long list of things a few of which I said "I'll be happy to try that" only to be told that all but one of the options offered had in fact been cut from the scheme due to budget contraints. The option left was training to be an IT help desk person. "What's wrong with that?" you might ask. Well I had actually pointed that the last time I did anything like that I ended up on anti-depressants and in counselling for 2 1/2 years and so I didn't really think it was a good idea.

So I ended up in what I called the stink room*. This basically meant that the new deal training consisted of spending all day in a room with people, some of whom had serious mental problems, some of whom stole stuff off each other and some of whom would happily turn a crossword puzzle problem into a physical confrontation. The bulk of the day required you to be in a room scanning the job pages or doing word puzzles. Very self-improving - one sense of worth came on in leaps and bounds. Very occasionally a representatibe of "A4E" (Action for Employment!) would offer someone a 6 -week stint of unpaid work "experience". On the first day of the 'course" we were told that we were here because "The system had failed.." us. In a way it had. My tenure in the stink room actively prevented me from getting out and about and selling myself and looking for the opportunities I was seeking. To be honest this felt less like help and encouragement and more like a punitive and pointless situation

Problems I have frequently encountered in seeking work is that the system that stands has no place for me. Whenever I get any photo work I declare it as you're supposed to do and the forms I fill in have hardly anything applicable to my situation.

*called thus because for some reason the main room stank and they refused to open any windows.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 16:21
Jesus, I know exactly what you're taling about!

Years back, I was sent on what was pitched as 'a gateway to an IT career', or something. Sort of pre big computer take off I imagine.

I spent 4 hours a day, five days a week stuck with 18 and 19 year olds who ended up going out with each other then having arguments about it there and then and wanting the rest of us to think Tanya was a bitch etc and some woman would stick her head round the door once a day to see how our worksheets were going (one of which, I remember, was to find out all I could about Robert Kilroy Silk - I kid you not!).

I was in my mid-late 20s so it didn't bother me much, but there was one poor woman of about 50 who was just practically weeping everyday.

Jeez MC you're descritption is just so evocative!

x
Moon Cat
9577 posts

Edited Aug 19, 2008, 16:30
Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 16:27
What annoys me about it is that you'll get an employment minister rhapsodising on telly about all these initiatives and training opportunities on offer, but the reality is many of the schemes have been trimmed to fuck - this list I saw, seriously there had been about 20 odd options on it and there was now only 1 still active.

Also, the idea of on the job training has gone. My first job was doing basic computer graphics for LED advert things. Knew nothing about puters but had artistic flair and got the job on the strength of that. I did a few a couple of weeks of on-the-job training, being paid a wage too, and then I had learned enough the do the job proper. That situation just does not exist anymore.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 16:31
I really don't know why they don't allow people to train properly, get some qualifications, seek out a proper apprenticeship etc, and so long as they are digging their heels in, allow them their benefits too. If they are just arseing about, then don't allow it!
Seems simple enough.
x
Moon Cat
9577 posts

Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 16:31
shanshee_allures wrote:
Jesus, I know exactly what you're taling about!

Years back, I was sent on what was pitched as 'a gateway to an IT career', or something. Sort of pre big computer take off I imagine.

I spent 4 hours a day, five days a week stuck with 18 and 19 year olds who ended up going out with each other then having arguments about it there and then and wanting the rest of us to think Tanya was a bitch etc and some woman would stick her head round the door once a day to see how our worksheets were going (one of which, I remember, was to find out all I could about Robert Kilroy Silk - I kid you not!).

I was in my mid-late 20s so it didn't bother me much, but there was one poor woman of about 50 who was just practically weeping everyday.

Jeez MC you're descritption is just so evocative!

x



I hope your worksheet re: Robert Kilroy Silk was a succint "CUNT!" and you got top marks!
Moon Cat
9577 posts

Edited Aug 19, 2008, 16:34
Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 16:34
I forgot to say; my New Deal adviser actually advised me to get a Doctors note and go on the sick rather than go to the stink-room! Off the record of course, but it indicates just how much faith the people that send you there have in this 'training'.
Moon Cat
9577 posts

Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 16:38
There might be apprenticeship style jobs for the yoof, but if you're over 25 - forget it.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 16:40
Yes, heard about that sort of thing too.
Makes you wonder what their job remit was!
x
pooley
pooley
501 posts

Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 18:11
PMM wrote:
I used to be exactly the kind of person you're referring to pooley.

I'm currently a productive member of society. In fact, I want to work more than I do, but I don't like doing promotional work for myself.

I did spend a long time on the dole, and then on the sick. I'm talking about maybe ten years. When I left school, I had sporadic short term shitty jobs, but the longest lasted for only 18 months. That was working as a postman. Getting up at 4 am every morning was playing havok with my drinking, and I stopped hearing the alarm clock go off. Many of the jobs I had were casual labour, for far less than minimum wage. In some cases my "Employer" didn't even pay me. Hardly the greatest incentive for me to pull out all the stops and give my best.

Things do go hand in hand. If you have a problem with substance abuse, you tend to think of your life being very chaotic. In fact it's really very structured. I structured my life around my fortnightly giro and hand-outs from my mum, and structured each day around getting drunk and/or stoned, and playing computer games.

I was bored and lonely beyond words. Much of what I was doing was because life without drink or weed was even more boring than life with it. I knew I had a problem, and didn't want to spend my whole life stuck in that rut. Yet I lacked the vision/courage/whatever to get out of the routine for a very long time.

As to forcing me to work???

You take someone with personal problems and no self confidence, and you force them to do something they don't want to do. That person has to work with people that treat them as scum (ever done agency work and worked alongside wholly employed staff?), doing a job that is meaningless and unfulfilling. What do you think will happen?

The process of climbing out of the holes we dig for ourselves has to be self-motivated. For example, there's no point sending an alcoholic for alcohol treatment if he doesn't want to stop, because he'll just relapse as soon as you put him back into the outside world. Far better to concentrate your resources on those that want to be helped.

In my case, it wasn't about money. But it was about self-worth. I started working a few days a week in a charity shop. Voluntary. For nothing. But something that meant something to me, personally. If you'd forced me to work in the charity shop, I'd have told you to fuck off, or at best I'd have turned up, and done as little as possible all day, just because.

The voluntary work led to a job as a charity shop manager. The volunteers were often a pain in the arse. If I'd had someone there because they were being forced to be there, they'd have been a far bigger pain. I think that if I were running a litter picking crew, I'd want pickers that were motivated, not pickers that I had to cajole and nag and keep an eye on all day in order to get anything done.


I don't think you are one of the people I am talking about. You seem to be getting out there, doing stuff, being productive.
The idea that when the country is so fucked, NHS cash starved, etc etc , that people can take take and give nothing back is vile.

Also, it was mentioned a while back that there are more jobs than people - but if you take the number of single parents, disabled, people who cant work of the figures, my understanding is that the figures go down to 80,000ish. Not a great deal more than the jobs available.
Without being too right wing - you have to give something back- Taking money without contributing is no longer an option.


VOTE FOR ME
PMM
PMM
3155 posts

Re: Tories and unemployment benefits
Aug 19, 2008, 18:14
pooley wrote:
I don't think you are one of the people I am talking about.


That's not what I said. I said I used to be. I was perfectly happy to take and give nothing back. Forcing me to work would not have turned me from a deadbeat into a productive member of society. It would have just made me resent the system and do my damndest to fuck things up.
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