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Citizensmurf 1703 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 03:06
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tinky10675 wrote: ...we will survive 4yrs of him better than the Idiot who thinks OUR children should all learn spanish... I just read a bit of this thread, but I found this comment berating Obama for wanting all Americans to learn Spanish to be telling of what is wrong with the attitudes of a lot of the voting population. Here in Canada, we all learn French in school. It's mandatory, there are even schools that only speak French (called Immersion) so children can learn the language at an early age, and use it througout life. The rough percentage of native French speaking people in our country is around 6 million. The total population is around 33 million, so the French make up around 18 percent. I did a search and found out that there are over 40 million Hispanic people in America, and with a total population of 300 million, that puts the Spanish speaking population at around 13 percent. Why then is it so idiotic to propose to make learning Spanish mandatory for all school aged children? Have you seen the footage of the Chinese population learning English in gigantic groups in order to prepare for the upcoming Olympics. Enriching the educational system is never a bad decision.
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tinky10675 209 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 03:13
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I find it FAR more logical and COST effective for the 13% to learn ENGLISH then to teach 87% to learn Spanish or maybe thats CRAZY talk on my part? Either way we will see what happens when this is all over but really the U.S is most likely going to be worse off no matter who wins this election.Good luck to both of them and to us all.
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Citizensmurf 1703 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 03:28
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tinky10675 wrote: I find it FAR more logical and COST effective for the 13% to learn ENGLISH then to teach 87% to learn Spanish or maybe thats CRAZY talk on my part? Either way we will see what happens when this is all over but really the U.S is most likely going to be worse off no matter who wins this election.Good luck to both of them and to us all. I should have added that a large majority of Spanish speaking Americans also speak English. Yes, a lot of immigrants (illegal or otherwise) do not learn English when they first arrive, mostly because they live with other Hispanics and work with other Hispanics. But this is true of most immigrated communities. The point I was trying to make was that the minorities of America (of which Hispanic is the largest) are doing more to adapt to the lifestyle of the general population than vice versa. Learning Spanish is not that difficult, nor is it that costly. I'm willing to bet that a lot of kids are taking an interest in Spanish from watching Dora the Explorer. America is not a melting pot, it is a huge multicultural landscape, and should be embraced as such.
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tinky10675 209 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 03:59
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If learning Spanish is so easy the reverse should be true as well.I do not need my commander and chief telling me I should learn a certain language that is a choice he doesn't need to make for me. Do his own children speak Spanish? Would be curious to know. Either way the language issue is not a real hot point anymore.Lets just wait and see who wins and then as a country we will decide if the right choice was made(though both choices are far from ideal)
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tinky10675 209 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 04:08
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nigelswift wrote: "That being so, it's a tacit admission that western overconsumption is in fact indefensible, racist and anti-human, that you like that because it provides you personally with luxury at the expense of others necessities " One thing worries me though. That's me you're talking about. And you probably? I probably consume less than Tinky and I'm certainly not so lacking in guilt as he seems to be but I do overconsume, massively, compared with what would be strictly equitable (one six billionth of World production) and I could consume less. So I don't think pointing to the massive selfishness of Tinky can allow me to pretend I'm not (almost) as bad. I feel not guilt whatsoever for my carbon foot print you have NO idea what my lifestyle is what kid of car i drive etc..And frankly I don't understand where you get off assuming things. I live more then half of my year on an island not much more than 48 miles wide by 28 miles long I surely don't spend alot of time driving from one end to the other over and over in my little Yaris.Also I have no need for air conditioning as the temp is a constant 80-85 ish.So really I might use less fuel then you since I don't have heating or cooling bills.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 06:16
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Sorry, I got the impression from somewhere you were well off, lived well and were anxious to protect your standard of life and not be dragged down to the level of the Third World.
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tinky10675 209 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 10:52
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nigelswift wrote: Sorry, I got the impression from somewhere you were well off, lived well and were anxious to protect your standard of life and not be dragged down to the level of the Third World. wealthy? No Happy with my standard of living?yes!Ashamed of how I live? never!
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 11:09
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Nigel, I've been using 'you' in the generalised sense; the points of Tinky's I was responding to are a generalised defence of American overconsumption, a belief that it's good and right and an implication that if it were to increase that would be a good thing. (There's a rich irony in Tinky crying foul because we don't know about his/her levels of consumption, given that on two different occasions Tinky attacked Dave in precisely those terms earlier in this thread and has yet to apologise.) Living in the West locks you into greater consumption patterns but there is much we can do personally to reduce our own consumption, and much we can do to change society. The issue is whether we believe and acts on that, or whther we revel in and venerate overconsumption. I was taking issue with Tinky's view that America should not relinquish its place as the world's greatest overconsumer. Tinky's variously described it as 'at the top of the ladder' or 'the top of the food chain', like it's a victory and something to be proud of. American troops killed in Iraq are, apparently, not invaders murderously taking the resources of another nation but 'heroes for maintaining our way of life'. That 'way of life' that is worth millions of peoples deaths (unlike Tinky, I count non-Americans in my body count) is not a good and glorious thing. What it actually means is forcing a far greater number of people into lives of misery and taking far more of the world's resources than can be sustained, making monstrous contribution to climate change. (As well as the world's highest rate of death from obesity). Nor is it, despite what Tinky's said, an inevitability. But Tinky says that people who don't like it should not work for greater justice but should leave the country. The clear implication is that America is only for those who are happy with overconsumption, and that it is probably a great thing, but certainly and explicitly it is not a bad thing. I have tried over and over again to get Tinky to engage with these ideas. I asked three straightforward questions about it and requested they be answered I'd guess about 15 times here. ====== Do you think that everyone has an equal right to the world's resources? Is it wrong that some people should vastly overconsume luxury even though it takes the essentials of life away from a great many more? If you don't answer an instant straight yes to both of those, can you please explain what you mean when you say you are Green? ======== You see why the only conclusion I can draw is that Tinky answers 'no' to the first two, realises how indefensible that is and how it makes a mockery of any claims to be Green, so decides to adopt a fingers in ears approach.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 11:38
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Well, I think "Ashamed of how I live? never! " sums up his attitude and many like him. Moral imbeciles, the lot of 'em. Yes I know you say I shouldn't be abusive but it's how Tinky's grandchildren will react soI'm just telling him early! ;)
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tinky10675 209 posts |
Jul 27, 2008, 14:32
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nigelswift wrote: Well, I think "Ashamed of how I live? never! " sums up his attitude and many like him. Moral imbeciles, the lot of 'em. Yes I know you say I shouldn't be abusive but it's how Tinky's grandchildren will react soI'm just telling him early! ;) I apologize about living responsibly while enjoying my life at the same time. Im sorry that you don't or so it seems...
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