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U-Know! Forum » The Cost Of Car |
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 09:28
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New recommendations are being made to the UK gov't to tax people per mile instead of through fuel and road tax. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1838000/1838185.stm Looks good to me, but then I don't live in the UK anymore ... what d'y'all reckon?
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embryonomore 853 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 11:10
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Absolute bullshit. (sorry) You can't charge people up to 45 pence per mile, and reduce their petrol costs by 2-12 pence. Even allowing for the abolition of road tax, it still puts the government in profit at the expense of the driver. I have a very low anual mileage, but still estimate that it will cost me more per year under this scheme. If this were to be actioned fairly, petrol costs should plummet by at the very least 30p per litre. That is my opinion on that hair brained scheme. Although, if I were doing their job, I'd work to reducing traffic congestion by developing a suitable and reliable public transport system. Public transport should be what the future of society and it's travels is based on. Instead it is being treated like, and rapidly becoming and out moded concept.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 11:32
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I totally agree about the need for better public transport, but you have to get people out of their cars once it's implemented. How do you do that? I think the only way is to make it too expensive to use your car for unecessary trips. Unfortunately Maggie made it illegal for council authorities to subsidise public transport and so the costs there can not be reduced as an insentive. So, I ask again, once the public transport system is the bees bollox how do you 'force' people to use it? Because no matter how good it is people will have to be forced on to it.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 12:35
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Well, you know where i stand on this one... people need to stop using their cars altogether, and they need to stop now. Yes, yes, i'm aware that's just not possible for every car user at the moment; so the onus is on the car users to adapt their lives so that it becomes possible. Here's the thing... when i want to get from A to B i need to expend a certain amount of energy to do so. However, if i decide to go by car, i also need to expend the energy to drag a ton of metal from A to B with me. This is madness. Pure and simple. i can't think of anything less energy efficient that we do on such a scale. Forget the whole pollution issue with regards to burning fossil fuels for a second; you're still left with a staggering waste of what's easily the planet's most precious non-living resource. The things that we can do with crude oil are almost limitless. To me, dragging a ton of metal around wherever i go is waaaaaayyyy down on that list. And we don't even need to up the taxes... just work out the true value of oil based upon projected future production and charge the car user *that* price. By the way, i read an interesting article over the weekend which suggests that the year 2000 may have been the year global oil production peaked; though it's impossible to tell for another couple of years until a trend develops.
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landells 680 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 12:46
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Perhaps I’m being toooooo cynical but I don’t believe this is an attempt to ease congestion and pollution. The government know that a hell of a lot of people have no desire to use anything other than their own transport, and therefore know that a taxation on road usage will significantly swell the coffers. If it was a serious attempt then the government should have unveiled a radical and forward-thinking transport policy, then presented the negative flipside of increased road costs. Public transport in the UK is diabolical and unless drastic and major changes are made by 2010 people will have no option other than the expensive road system. I agree that action must be taken to reduce congestion and pollution but pricing people out of using their own car is not a responsible option. People must want to change rather than be forced to change. Present people with a transport system that is cheaper, less stressful, and as quick (or almost) as their own car, and one that is very very reliable and people will change their “Car is God!” attitude…maybe. This new satellite system will also mean the government will know exactly where you’ve been in you car
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 12:55
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> > People must want to change rather than be > forced to change. > On almost every issue; i agree completely with that attitude. However, if we're talking about changing behaviour that is a major source of pollution, a chronic waste of our dwindling resources, unhealthy and antisocial... then perhaps, just maybe, we should be giving 'em a bit of a prod? i'm proud to note that Mayor Ken of London is pushing ahead with plans for congestion charging despite much opposition. Proud? Voting for Ken was the first time i ever voted for a politician (every other time i spoiled my ballot with "None of the above!"), and one of the main reasons for that vote was to support congestion charging (as well as try to stop the tube sell-off, which he's still trying to do). http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_1841000/1841315.stm Charge a fiver every time someone turns on their engine, i say!
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embryonomore 853 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 14:11
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Not if it's really cool, like hovering busses and stuff! Make public transport enjoyable, moreso than the act of driving. make it free, like it (sort of) is in Rome. Increase the incentive and you won't need to tax people off the roads. The new scheme seems to make it cheaper to drive on B-roads. Theres a lot of talk about "decreasing congestion on major roads by 40%", but no-one mentions increasing congestion on quietr roads by 40% of the congestion on major roads. These minor roads often have traffic of less than that 40% anyway, therefor the congestion on rural roads will possibly double. The answer to that? "Lets build another bypass." They need to provide a suitable service before forcing people to travel by other means/ routes.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 15:09
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> > They need to provide a suitable service before > forcing people to travel by other means/ routes. > i agree with this to an extent... but there's also an assumption in there that ticks me off a tad. When you get into a car and start the engine - *you* are making that decision. It's *your* choice to burn that petrol and contribute to the ongoing decimation of our most precious resource in the name of personal transportation. You can argue that "i *need* to make this car journey", but hey; i (and plenty of people i know) have made conscious decisions not to own a car and to minimise car usage whenever possible. i agree that if everyone did that tomorrow, then the public transport system would collapse... so yes, the government needs to sort that out big-time. But there's a lot of "avoidance" going on too. People choose to start their engines and drive to work and then blame the government for the burnt oil... "*they* aren't doing enough to make it easy for me to quit my car use". Well, hey there, maybe it's not going to be an easy thing to do. Sorry 'bout that - but the whole point of burning our oil is to make life easier. Still doesn't alter the fact that we gotta stop. Besides; how many of the lone-commuters that fill our motorways every morn and eve have ever looked into car-pooling? Some, no doubt - probably everyone on _this_ list - but i'd lay odds on it being a small proportion. People are addicted to ease and convenience that energy-wastefulness brings, and they say an awful lot of things to rationalise that fact. Yes, we need better public transport. But also: Yes, 90% of car users can probably make inconvenient choices that radically reduce their car usage.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 15:11
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just re-read that... there's an awfully Preachy tone to it. Major apologies; i hate that kind of thing myself. jim.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 15:26
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You may feel it was preachy and I must say it was a little, but it's so easy to do that when you feel strongly. So I forgive you :-) What you say is correct. People should be forced to use more public transport, but you do have to make it fluent and welcoming and useful. I do use the car at weekends, but in the week I get the bus. I am lucky anyway that one bus takes me from 500m from my house to 500m from work, but that is too much for most people to walk. When I do actually bother to watch the road while standing at the bus stop I estimate only one in eight cars has more than two people in it. A few thoughts ... Tax breaks for car pooling? Don't know how you'd police it, but why not? Do what they do here in Ireland now ... Buy bus/rail season tickets BEFORE tax. That's cool - nearly half price travel. Scrap Maggie's stupid law on subsidies.
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