anthonyqkiernan
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Ken Livingstone
Feb 14, 2005, 22:30
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Were his comments anti-semitic? Or crass and stupid?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4262833.stm
Not many polikticians when faced with their career going down the plug would say:
"If I could in anything I say relieve any pain anyone feels I would not hesitate to do it but it would require me to be a liar.
"I could apologise but why should I say words I do not believe in my heart?
"Therefore I cannot. If that is something people find they cannot accept I am sorry but this is how I feel after nearly a quarter of a century of their behaviour and tactics."
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BUBBLEHEAD
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Re: Ken Livingstone
Feb 15, 2005, 21:24
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Ken's comments were crass but I seriously doubt if the journalist was offended, more likely rubbing his hands together at the thought of a choice exclusive for the next days paper. Why else would he be there but to try and illicit dumb remarks form drunken politicians as they left the party. No way was he going to get a serious interview. Bleedin' agent provocateur IMO.
I know he didn't work for the Daily Mail but that paper causes me offence everytime I see its headlines and nobodys ever apologised to me.
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Chief Boabab
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Re: Ken Livingstone
Feb 16, 2005, 10:44
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Its a tricky one - cos on the one hand calling someone of jewish descent a nazi - is bound to cause offence, however its not like the guy was wearing head thingy and waving a torah. And i doubt that the conversation was
'i'm jewish'
'you're a nazi'
rather
'i'm from the daily mail'
'i'm persecuted by you guys'
'hey i just write for them'
'well a concentration camp guard was just doing his job too right'
That said the bloke did look pretty jewish... and Ken had probably had run ins with mr finegold previously.
The second issue is a bit hairier - i mean does being jewish preclude someone from acting like a concentration camp guard or even a nazi? I dunno ask a palestinian living behind a wall, dispossessed of their land, excluded economically and periodically shot. To make historical analogies of current events can lead to inaccuracies of depiction - surely it would be more helpful to say that israelis are acting like israelis and start from there.
What i object to in the press is
1) we never get the details of the exchange between Ken and DM journo
and
2) we never get a full run down of daily mails/ evening standards position viz ken
Sadly it seems like the most press, is playing the race card a lot harder than anyone else, which says more for the society we live in rather than the pissed remarks of harried politician to a hack journo.
:0
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anthonyqkiernan
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Time to relent?
Feb 17, 2005, 10:36
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He's got Boris batting for him
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4272895.stm
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grufty jim
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Re: Time to relent?
Feb 17, 2005, 10:49
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I'm actually on Ken's side to a great extent. I've got a bit of an article brewing on the subject though, so I'll "get back to you" when it's done...
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anthonyqkiernan
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Re: Time to relent?
Feb 17, 2005, 11:39
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IMO, the only thing he's done wrong was completely screw up the line in the first place. "Are you a german war criminal?" I meant WTF? Too convoluted.
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grufty jim
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Re: Time to relent?
Feb 17, 2005, 12:20
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Oh yeah, it was very badly phrased. But he was on his way out of a party... and he's known to enjoy the odd glass of wine or three. And it *was* an insulting comment. But it was insulting to a reporter and his employers. Not to anyone else. That other people have taken offence isn't Ken's fault. It's just the standard kneejerk reaction whenever anyone "mentions the war" (in certain contexts). But more later when I've had time to finish my rant/article.
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Chief Boabab
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Re: Time to relent?
Feb 17, 2005, 13:34
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I think boris standing up for Ken will probably prompt Ken to apologise... I mean with friends like that!
Besides which - whats wrong Nazi's any way - now they knew who to strut! ;)
(sorry in a facetitious mood today)
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Lawrence
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Re: Time to relent?
Feb 17, 2005, 14:30
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Y'know, on a side note, did anyone notice the large grouping of nazis at the Dresden commemoration recently? Pretty disturbing. Four thousand showed up instead of a few hundred. Only a few hundred counter-demonstrators instead of a thousand.
AND the neo-nazi rhetoric at that time seemed to expand to Bush and his war in Iraq -- comparing Dresden to Bush's indiscriminate bombing. I'm sure we'll have Bush and sneery commentators like Ann Coulter to blame if we see another rise of Fascism! Unfortunately I don't think Bush will realise this until it's too late...
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Lawrence
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Re: Time to relent?
Feb 17, 2005, 14:33
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And a co-worker of mine, who is Jewish, told me he recently saw a subtle-but-blatant anti-Semetic bumper-sticker on someones car, apparently blaming Israel for bombing an American Warship. Things aren't boding well...
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