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U-Know! Forum » "African-American" Tag |
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Oar 28 posts |
Jun 01, 2003, 22:37
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Hey. What do you think about the whole idea of calling a black person in the States an "African-American". I mean, if we were talking about someone in the 19th Century I would rather agree, but don't you find it a rather euphemistic tag? Why not just "American"? Just a thought. Cheerio.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Jun 01, 2003, 22:46
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As far as i know, the tag "African American" is self-applied, and carries with it an implication of pride in their heritage. Just as many people describe themselves as Irish Americans or Italian Americans, despite being 4 or 5 generations distant from their immigrant ancestor. Perhaps the fact that African Americans have an obvious physical distinction (the colour of their skin) makes the tag seem more 'defining' than - say - Italian or Irish American, who - at a glance - are indistinguishable. I dunno... just speculating.
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Oar 28 posts |
Jun 01, 2003, 23:06
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Cheers for the message. Indeed you are right. But at the same time it lends itself to some racist remarks. When Denzel Washington and Halle Berry won the Oscar some years ago, part of the American media said that it was an "African-American" night. At the same time I heard that some black people would call Mr. Washington and Mrs. Berry as "Oreo". I don't know. If the "African-American" is self-imposed then perhaps it should be referred to only them? I just find it offensive. Is there a problem with saying black? Moreover, why making that distinction?
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Jun 02, 2003, 09:37
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i think it was part of a move away from being seen simply as 'black' - a liberal way of kinda denyoing a general racism and making it apply specifically in different ways to different groups (ie anti-African American racism is suppossed to be quite different ato anti-Mexican American racism, or anti-asian racism). Partly, anyhows
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ratcni01 916 posts |
Jun 02, 2003, 12:54
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We all want to have our identities recognised by others, as well as our own need to be happy and confident in our sense of identity/self. How I classify yourself is partly about belonging isn't it, and I can show respect for others identity by asking how people define ourselves rather than imposing my own judgement on others. I know sometimes I feel the need to mention having Jewish heritage if I'm feeling like someone is defining me in their mind, boxing me up so to speak. If others choose to use these tags as insults or minimising/demeaning ways I hope that I get a chance to share what I've learned with them, if not well, life is short and I'm not responsible for everything, that kind of thing is more about them than me. My ex defines herself as black british, our kids we call dual heritage. mixed race is out there is only one race, the human race, and a lot of the other labels/tags have really uncomfortable history, which I'm not interested in perpetuating - remembering yes. Using more specific tags is a way of individuating a person, I suppose if the motivation behind it is not respect then it doesn't matter what language you use. peacenick
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jun 03, 2003, 10:43
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I have a real problem with any 'tag', whether it's self-imposed or not. Applying a tag to yourself is just doing it before somebody else does. The need to differentiate yourself from others is bad - no matter what side it comes from. It still says either, "I am this and you are not, nor will you ever be", or "You are this and I am not, and I never want to be." My kids are multi-heritage. Mum was half Egyptian, half Cornish. I have Viking, Romany, Scottish and a bit of British royal blood in my veins. I only apply two tags to my kids: 'People' and 'My (sometimes lovely) Daughters'. Ok, sometimes I call them by a few different names :-) Perhaps I don't like it because I could only really define myself as being "white British", but for obvious reasons I am not allowed to say I'm proud of that. Not that it is something to be proud of historically speaking, but can someone be proud to be white British today? Will the day come when white British or white European will ever be a good thing? It should not be forgotten that when white Europeans first tagged themselves as different from the African, Asian and American nations we put in place a mechanism whereby we enabled the slave trade etc. to be acceptable to the majority. Tags are bad. Everyone has an individuality and should only be tagged by their own personal character traits, not where they or their ancestors had the luck/misfortune to be born. <let the slagging and the slating commence>
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duckbreath 254 posts |
Jun 03, 2003, 11:30
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When Berry & Washington won their Oscars it was the first time a black woman had won the main award and the first time since Sidney Poitier that a black man had won it. I think it’s fair enough that black actors and commentators celebrate this as a big step forward and an inspiration to younger black americans that the sky is the limit and so on. It’s good to have role models. It’s also good to claim something proudly that people have sidelined you or tried to humiliate you for. Why shouldn’t we be able to celebrate the good things we have for inherited from our forebears? When you stop these celebrations altogether I think it pulls people apart from their communities. When people don’t feel they are from any one place they lose respect for their environment and the common good and just become morphed into globalised americanised culture. If you think of the world music scene which is getting smaller and smaller as artists become more western sounding you can see how some national identities are being threatened and national cultures become extinct. Who wants to be part of the inane vacuous cultural TV wasteland when there is so much cultural diversity and great art that comes from people ‘feeling’ a specific identity. It’s always liberal brits/americans who have so many problems with identity because as soon as anyone begins worrying about losing British culture then they get branded a racist but how often do you hear people in pubs/bus stops bemoaning the fact that Starbucks are taking over all the old fashioned cafes, or how the BBC makes no more good tv, or how lower division football is threatened by UEFA super-leagues – it’s not just racists who worry about losing things we enjoy about our culture – its all of us.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jun 03, 2003, 12:03
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I am well noted for my over simplistic and idealistic view on things, to the point of impracticality. But you raise many good points: Oscar thing: Yes. A great moment. I really can't argue with that. "When people don’t feel they are from any one place they lose respect for their environment and the common good and just become morphed into globalised americanised culture." Why can't that *one* place be the planet Earth? This does not necessarily mean that a "globalised americanised culture" must be in place to be this way. It is avoidable, but we have to take action to avoid it. Unfortunately, most people are just here for the ride. World Music etc.: Yes, sadly it is being crushed by the desire of tallented people to acquire the vast sums of money available via pop-stardom. However, just like people have become an encapsulation of their heritages (?) music has too. You can see the influences of 'world music' in many modern forms of music. Is it right to say that this music or that music must remain pure? Sounds a little iffy to me. "Who wants to be part of the inane vacuous cultural TV ... "? Not I. But life is about taking different experiences, good and bad, and combining the lessons learned. This should include a melding of cultures too. Unfortunately, it is always the money making aspects that get used and the good bits thrown away. Starbucks et al: Again aspects of culture change. Culture change has been both inflicted and taken on board gladly for thousands of years. It is the infliction that is the problem here, not the changes. I know all the above is idealist and in today's world it ain't gonna happen and that it can never be that way. There's nothing wrong with being 'one people' as long as it's the 'one people' that we 'the people' choose, not one that is foisted upon us.
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ratcni01 916 posts |
Jun 05, 2003, 15:52
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Thanks FW for the reply. i agree that tags can be bad, if they are the be all and end all of a persons identity. I use tags in context, sensitively and sensibly i hope. there are certain things about the qualities/attributes of people that are unique to them and will never be mine and vice versa, i don't mind that and wouldn't want to disrespect anyone elses identity by somehow ignoring it or equating/comparing it, you know like if it came from being anything from a child of migrants from the caribbean - empire windrush style, or an asian migrant from amin's uganda or a largely provincial white british man with a bit of jewishness in his heritage. i hope that i am part of the community that is the human race, but that doesn't necessarily stop me from being a head and part of this community, and in someway attached to the other parts of my families history as well. i can do both/and rather than either/or, i'm not trying to exclude anyone but i am unique just like you!! i'm not resposible for what my imperialist forebears did, i do end up feeling bad about stuff that my ancestors did, but that's past. however the most important bit is what i do now, for that i really am accountable, do i perpetuate injustice and bigotry, do i support greed and selfishness or is it part of my journey to fight that? In closing FW, I'd agree that me tagging you is bad, who I am to define you, I am only an expert on me. Great to have a good discussion on here rather than flaming some tossy spammer
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Joanna 658 posts |
Jun 05, 2003, 16:21
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True story: My friend Mina, dressed up in her sari, had the following conversation with a little old lady on a bus LOL 'You look lovely dear, where do you come from Mina 'Plaistow' LOL But where have you come from originally? Mina 'Plaistow. I was born there LOL But where are your parents from? Mina 'Bradford.' LOL but where are they from ORIGINALLY Mina 'Mum's from Bradford, Dad's from Leeds.' Mina getting fed up with this said - and where were your parents from? to the (white) LOL, and got this answer 'My mother was born in India and lived in St Petersburg, and my father was half Italian and half Brazilian.' So you never can tell :)
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