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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 06, 2017, 15:59
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Thanks for the info . The Beaker people project is brilliant , our understanding has come on leaps and bounds in the past decade , Garwood and Last deserve special mention in that regrad , and it will only improve .It sounds like a very good advert for the monograph , pity about lack of detail . Disappearance of some (I assume haplotypes ) groups , inter personal violence , iconoclasm , the huge change in culture . It was on (but not in )the cards some time ago . He covered a lot in 90 minutes, and yes, a good ad for the publication! The cradle stuff I was unaware of, but it goes some way to explaining the skulls (together with the genetics of course.) Not sure about the the DNA stuff, would need to wait and see. Boas had demolished the skull nonsense a century ago ,but it was still part of the thinking here until the 60's , if not later . Isotope analysis is great but DNA takes a bit of beating . Did he say that there was some results to be announced for DNA ? He said it was a bit 'hush-hush'(!) at the moment, I assume that means it'll be published in due course. No mention here http://www.ucl.ac.uk/archaeology/research/directory/beaker-people-parkerpearson , but hopefully .
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 06, 2017, 16:03
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: iconoclasm Not that MPP said much about it, but I find that a bit of a murky area. I wanted to ask him about stuff like the avenues at Avebury, which came later than the circle, iirc, well after 2400bc. And the barrows that surround Avebury, what does that indicate in those terms? The RSCs are another example where there seems to be a blending of ideas rather than some kind of 'take over'. I was thinking of damage to stones at Stonehenge , Mount Pleasant , Le Petit Chasseur ,Sion etc .
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Feb 06, 2017, 17:28
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tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: iconoclasm Not that MPP said much about it, but I find that a bit of a murky area. I wanted to ask him about stuff like the avenues at Avebury, which came later than the circle, iirc, well after 2400bc. And the barrows that surround Avebury, what does that indicate in those terms? The RSCs are another example where there seems to be a blending of ideas rather than some kind of 'take over'. I was thinking of damage to stones at Stonehenge , Mount Pleasant , Le Petit Chasseur ,Sion etc . Not familiar with that. What happened at Mount Pleasant?
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 06, 2017, 17:51
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: iconoclasm Not that MPP said much about it, but I find that a bit of a murky area. I wanted to ask him about stuff like the avenues at Avebury, which came later than the circle, iirc, well after 2400bc. And the barrows that surround Avebury, what does that indicate in those terms? The RSCs are another example where there seems to be a blending of ideas rather than some kind of 'take over'. I was thinking of damage to stones at Stonehenge , Mount Pleasant , Le Petit Chasseur ,Sion etc . Not familiar with that. What happened at Mount Pleasant? There was a setting of a sarsen cove , no sarsens were discovered only the sockets and 300 pounds of smashed up sarsen deposits accompanied with charcoal , both had been subject to intense heat , plus another smaller amount found around the monument .Grooved Ware and the presence of timber circle was discovered , but also a later beaker burial .
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Edited Feb 06, 2017, 18:07
Feb 06, 2017, 18:07
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tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: iconoclasm Not that MPP said much about it, but I find that a bit of a murky area. I wanted to ask him about stuff like the avenues at Avebury, which came later than the circle, iirc, well after 2400bc. And the barrows that surround Avebury, what does that indicate in those terms? The RSCs are another example where there seems to be a blending of ideas rather than some kind of 'take over'. I was thinking of damage to stones at Stonehenge , Mount Pleasant , Le Petit Chasseur ,Sion etc . Not familiar with that. What happened at Mount Pleasant? There was a setting of a sarsen cove , no sarsens were discovered only the sockets and 300 pounds of smashed up sarsen deposits accompanied with charcoal , both had been subject to intense heat , plus another smaller amount found around the monument .Grooved Ware and the presence of timber circle was discovered , but also a later beaker burial . Interesting. Were they coming down from Scotland? Some of the earliest beaker burials and the first area they go out of use. To answer my bit about Avebury above, that could possibly mean some of those barrows dotted around were much later? Possibly meaning no beaker influence at all before 2300/2200, when the communal stuff came to a close. Do you have any dates for earliest beaker use (in any context) for wessex? I think there were burials (underneath avenue stones rings a bell) but not barrows for the earliest perhaps? Thinking out loud..
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 06, 2017, 18:49
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: iconoclasm Not that MPP said much about it, but I find that a bit of a murky area. I wanted to ask him about stuff like the avenues at Avebury, which came later than the circle, iirc, well after 2400bc. And the barrows that surround Avebury, what does that indicate in those terms? The RSCs are another example where there seems to be a blending of ideas rather than some kind of 'take over'. I was thinking of damage to stones at Stonehenge , Mount Pleasant , Le Petit Chasseur ,Sion etc . Not familiar with that. What happened at Mount Pleasant? There was a setting of a sarsen cove , no sarsens were discovered only the sockets and 300 pounds of smashed up sarsen deposits accompanied with charcoal , both had been subject to intense heat , plus another smaller amount found around the monument .Grooved Ware and the presence of timber circle was discovered , but also a later beaker burial . Interesting. Were they coming down from Scotland? Some of the earliest beaker burials and the first area they go out of use. To answer my bit about Avebury above, that could possibly mean some of those barrows dotted around were much later? Possibly meaning no beaker influence at all before 2300/2200, when the communal stuff came to a close. Do you have any dates for earliest beaker use (in any context) for wessex? I think there were burials (underneath avenue stones rings a bell) but not barrows for the earliest perhaps? Thinking out loud.. Sorry missed the Avebury avenue /barrows . Yep later than henge and same time as the earliest Beaker burials (2500 BC ) , RSC 'S (approx 2500 BC )and Silbury (2400bc ) .
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
Feb 06, 2017, 22:18
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I'd tripped over this link to the Trinity College Team's findings only yesterday courtesy of Dr Beach. https://phys.org/news/2017-02-ancient-dna-reveals-stone-age.html The good Doc also featured some eye-watering news on early prostate stones. I mean you could play shinty wae them things. http://www.seeker.com/oldest-prostate-stones-ever-found-suggest-a-man-was-in-agony-12000-yea-2228584491.html I must drink more water these days.
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Feb 06, 2017, 22:26
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tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: iconoclasm Not that MPP said much about it, but I find that a bit of a murky area. I wanted to ask him about stuff like the avenues at Avebury, which came later than the circle, iirc, well after 2400bc. And the barrows that surround Avebury, what does that indicate in those terms? The RSCs are another example where there seems to be a blending of ideas rather than some kind of 'take over'. I was thinking of damage to stones at Stonehenge , Mount Pleasant , Le Petit Chasseur ,Sion etc . Not familiar with that. What happened at Mount Pleasant? There was a setting of a sarsen cove , no sarsens were discovered only the sockets and 300 pounds of smashed up sarsen deposits accompanied with charcoal , both had been subject to intense heat , plus another smaller amount found around the monument .Grooved Ware and the presence of timber circle was discovered , but also a later beaker burial . Interesting. Were they coming down from Scotland? Some of the earliest beaker burials and the first area they go out of use. To answer my bit about Avebury above, that could possibly mean some of those barrows dotted around were much later? Possibly meaning no beaker influence at all before 2300/2200, when the communal stuff came to a close. Do you have any dates for earliest beaker use (in any context) for wessex? I think there were burials (underneath avenue stones rings a bell) but not barrows for the earliest perhaps? Thinking out loud.. Sorry missed the Avebury avenue /barrows . Yep later than henge and same time as the earliest Beaker burials (2500 BC ) , RSC 'S (approx 2500 BC )and Silbury (2400bc ) . It would seem tempting to view Silbury, and others, Marden etc, not as the last of the neolithic communal monuments but new ideas from elsewhere.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 06, 2017, 23:37
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: iconoclasm Not that MPP said much about it, but I find that a bit of a murky area. I wanted to ask him about stuff like the avenues at Avebury, which came later than the circle, iirc, well after 2400bc. And the barrows that surround Avebury, what does that indicate in those terms? The RSCs are another example where there seems to be a blending of ideas rather than some kind of 'take over'. I was thinking of damage to stones at Stonehenge , Mount Pleasant , Le Petit Chasseur ,Sion etc . Not familiar with that. What happened at Mount Pleasant? There was a setting of a sarsen cove , no sarsens were discovered only the sockets and 300 pounds of smashed up sarsen deposits accompanied with charcoal , both had been subject to intense heat , plus another smaller amount found around the monument .Grooved Ware and the presence of timber circle was discovered , but also a later beaker burial . Interesting. Were they coming down from Scotland? Some of the earliest beaker burials and the first area they go out of use. To answer my bit about Avebury above, that could possibly mean some of those barrows dotted around were much later? Possibly meaning no beaker influence at all before 2300/2200, when the communal stuff came to a close. Do you have any dates for earliest beaker use (in any context) for wessex? I think there were burials (underneath avenue stones rings a bell) but not barrows for the earliest perhaps? Thinking out loud.. Sorry missed the Avebury avenue /barrows . Yep later than henge and same time as the earliest Beaker burials (2500 BC ) , RSC 'S (approx 2500 BC )and Silbury (2400bc ) . It would seem tempting to view Silbury, and others, Marden etc, not as the last of the neolithic communal monuments but new ideas from elsewhere. I think Marden and Hatfield barrow fit into the earlier category chronologically and stylistically .
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Feb 07, 2017, 00:06
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tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: iconoclasm Not that MPP said much about it, but I find that a bit of a murky area. I wanted to ask him about stuff like the avenues at Avebury, which came later than the circle, iirc, well after 2400bc. And the barrows that surround Avebury, what does that indicate in those terms? The RSCs are another example where there seems to be a blending of ideas rather than some kind of 'take over'. I was thinking of damage to stones at Stonehenge , Mount Pleasant , Le Petit Chasseur ,Sion etc . Not familiar with that. What happened at Mount Pleasant? There was a setting of a sarsen cove , no sarsens were discovered only the sockets and 300 pounds of smashed up sarsen deposits accompanied with charcoal , both had been subject to intense heat , plus another smaller amount found around the monument .Grooved Ware and the presence of timber circle was discovered , but also a later beaker burial . Interesting. Were they coming down from Scotland? Some of the earliest beaker burials and the first area they go out of use. To answer my bit about Avebury above, that could possibly mean some of those barrows dotted around were much later? Possibly meaning no beaker influence at all before 2300/2200, when the communal stuff came to a close. Do you have any dates for earliest beaker use (in any context) for wessex? I think there were burials (underneath avenue stones rings a bell) but not barrows for the earliest perhaps? Thinking out loud.. Sorry missed the Avebury avenue /barrows . Yep later than henge and same time as the earliest Beaker burials (2500 BC ) , RSC 'S (approx 2500 BC )and Silbury (2400bc ) . It would seem tempting to view Silbury, and others, Marden etc, not as the last of the neolithic communal monuments but new ideas from elsewhere. I think Marden and Hatfield barrow fit into the earlier category chronologically and stylistically . Sorry, by Marden I meant the hatfield barrow, not the henge. If Silbury was started around 2400, complete around 2100/2000 after a hiatus, as has been suggested, then it's easy to imagine what it became was an idea from elsewhere. I don't see why Hatfield barrow couldn't fit too. The date of 2500 must come from the base layer (not a lot left, a few inches) we don't know when it was finished.
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