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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Durrington Walls » CULINARY HABITS OF THE STONEHENGE BUILDERS |
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moss 2897 posts |
Oct 14, 2015, 11:19
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Interesting flurry of news on the feasting at Durrington Walls. Dairy products become 'ritual', no salads or greens... http://www.heritagedaily.com/2015/10/culinary-habits-of-the-stonehenge-builders/108630 "Little evidence of plant-based meals were located at the site. Researchers found the burnt remains of nuts and wild fruits such as berries or crab apples, but no cooking greens or vegetables were located at what is described as a “meat fest”. Read more: http://www.ancient-origins.net/news/feeding-stonehenge-hearty-menu-monument-builders-revealed-barbeque-pork-roast-beef-yogurt-and-020564#ixzz3oXIaPLC2 |
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CARL 511 posts |
Oct 14, 2015, 13:23
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Not getting their 5-a-day then? ;)
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Oct 14, 2015, 15:08
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moss wrote: Interesting flurry of news on the feasting at Durrington Walls. Dairy products become 'ritual', no salads or greens... http://www.heritagedaily.com/2015/10/culinary-habits-of-the-stonehenge-builders/108630 "Little evidence of plant-based meals were located at the site. Researchers found the burnt remains of nuts and wild fruits such as berries or crab apples, but no cooking greens or vegetables were located at what is described as a “meat fest”. Read more: http://www.ancient-origins.net/news/feeding-stonehenge-hearty-menu-monument-builders-revealed-barbeque-pork-roast-beef-yogurt-and-020564#ixzz3oXIaPLC2 'As the complete skeletons were present, the animals are thought to have been walked to the site and then slaughtered, rather than being butchered remotely and carried in as joints of meat. Cattle had come from many different locations across Britain, some far away'. Speculation seem to turn almost into fact overnight. Those cattle from 'far away' may have found their way down there donkeys years before as different breeds were distributed from one 'county' to the other just like they are today when building a new herd, not like MPP was suggesting in his TV programme on this that they were selected purposely and came as far away as Scotland and I believe the Orkneys just to be feasted upon at Durrington.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Oct 14, 2015, 15:31
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Sanctuary wrote: moss wrote: Interesting flurry of news on the feasting at Durrington Walls. Dairy products become 'ritual', no salads or greens... http://www.heritagedaily.com/2015/10/culinary-habits-of-the-stonehenge-builders/108630 "Little evidence of plant-based meals were located at the site. Researchers found the burnt remains of nuts and wild fruits such as berries or crab apples, but no cooking greens or vegetables were located at what is described as a “meat fest”. Read more: http://www.ancient-origins.net/news/feeding-stonehenge-hearty-menu-monument-builders-revealed-barbeque-pork-roast-beef-yogurt-and-020564#ixzz3oXIaPLC2 'As the complete skeletons were present, the animals are thought to have been walked to the site and then slaughtered, rather than being butchered remotely and carried in as joints of meat. Cattle had come from many different locations across Britain, some far away'. Speculation seem to turn almost into fact overnight. Those cattle from 'far away' may have found their way down there donkeys years before as different breeds were distributed from one 'county' to the other just like they are today when building a new herd, not like MPP was suggesting in his TV programme on this that they were selected purposely and came as far away as Scotland and I believe the Orkneys just to be feasted upon at Durrington. It is a fact that isotope analysis shows that some of the cattle (11 of 13 ) "provided signatures so distinct from that found locally that they could not have been raised on chalkland." (from the original 2010 paper ) and "isotope analyses have shown that cattle deposited during the use of the site had a wide range of origins, with evidence for links with the west of Britain, perhaps including Cornwall, Wales and northern Britain " the recent feeding one .
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spencer 3070 posts |
Edited Oct 14, 2015, 15:38
Oct 14, 2015, 15:35
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All those Durrito wrappers...tut tut
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tjj 3606 posts |
Oct 14, 2015, 17:42
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moss wrote: Interesting flurry of news on the feasting at Durrington Walls. Dairy products become 'ritual', no salads or greens... http://www.heritagedaily.com/2015/10/culinary-habits-of-the-stonehenge-builders/108630 "Little evidence of plant-based meals were located at the site. Researchers found the burnt remains of nuts and wild fruits such as berries or crab apples, but no cooking greens or vegetables were located at what is described as a “meat fest”. Read more: http://www.ancient-origins.net/news/feeding-stonehenge-hearty-menu-monument-builders-revealed-barbeque-pork-roast-beef-yogurt-and-020564#ixzz3oXIaPLC2 Interesting reading - the cattle would have been needed for the diary products. It feels like people from far and wide congregated there leading up to the Winter Solstice - bringing their animals with them. There is always a modern take put on it though, the concept of 'barbequed meat' for example - all food was cooked on open fires back then.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Oct 14, 2015, 20:09
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moss wrote: Interesting flurry of news on the feasting at Durrington Walls. Dairy products become 'ritual', no salads or greens... http://www.heritagedaily.com/2015/10/culinary-habits-of-the-stonehenge-builders/108630 "Little evidence of plant-based meals were located at the site. Researchers found the burnt remains of nuts and wild fruits such as berries or crab apples, but no cooking greens or vegetables were located at what is described as a “meat fest”. Read more: http://www.ancient-origins.net/news/feeding-stonehenge-hearty-menu-monument-builders-revealed-barbeque-pork-roast-beef-yogurt-and-020564#ixzz3oXIaPLC2 You often wonder if the people that write up these stories actually understood the papers they report on . The reading from the paper by the reviews is a bit misleading concerning greens/vegetables . The tests were for absorbed lipid residues i.e. fats ,waxes etc which are likely to be high in meat and dairy products ,but not in greens. “ no cooking greens or vegetables were located at what is described as a “meat fest”.” The paper didn’t say that ,what it did say was “and an emphasis on animal over plant foods.” , “Without knowing the isotope values of cereal grains or other plant foods that were available, however, it is difficult to assess the relative dietary contribution of animal and plant products, and therefore whether the range of foods encountered at Durrington Walls were consumed on a regular basis. “ and “Plant foods such as fruits and tubers are also less likely to have come into contact with fire during processing and may therefore be somewhat underrepresented. “ and even “trace amounts of degraded vegetable waxes were detected in a small number of sherds “ all of which are quite different from the suggestion in the review .
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moss 2897 posts |
Oct 15, 2015, 09:22
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tiompan wrote: You often wonder if the people that write up these stories actually understood the papers they report on . The reading from the paper by the reviews is a bit misleading concerning greens/vegetables . The tests were for absorbed lipid residues i.e. fats ,waxes etc which are likely to be high in meat and dairy products ,but not in greens. “ no cooking greens or vegetables were located at what is described as a “meat fest”.” The paper didn’t say that ,what it did say was “and an emphasis on animal over plant foods.” , “Without knowing the isotope values of cereal grains or other plant foods that were available, however, it is difficult to assess the relative dietary contribution of animal and plant products, and therefore whether the range of foods encountered at Durrington Walls were consumed on a regular basis. “ and “Plant foods such as fruits and tubers are also less likely to have come into contact with fire during processing and may therefore be somewhat underrepresented. “ and even “trace amounts of degraded vegetable waxes were detected in a small number of sherds “ all of which are quite different from the suggestion in the review . You should be grateful I never put the Daily Mail article up Tiompan ;). Problem is the 'real' news is in Antiquity and has to be paid for, and sensationalism is what newspapers are all about. I believe that they would have used other foodstuffs to bulk their diet out. Nuts for a start, they didn't have those pesky grey squirrels around stealing them. Greens such as sorrel, or nettles, and it was custom to eat the new tips of the hawthorn bush up to the Victorian age. I suspect there were women who gathered such things, what about fungi? you would have to work through the poisonous ones of course. Skewed truths are something we are all used to in daily politics, we should always take newspaper reporting with a pinch of salt.....
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Oct 15, 2015, 09:53
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moss wrote: tiompan wrote: You often wonder if the people that write up these stories actually understood the papers they report on . The reading from the paper by the reviews is a bit misleading concerning greens/vegetables . The tests were for absorbed lipid residues i.e. fats ,waxes etc which are likely to be high in meat and dairy products ,but not in greens. “ no cooking greens or vegetables were located at what is described as a “meat fest”.” The paper didn’t say that ,what it did say was “and an emphasis on animal over plant foods.” , “Without knowing the isotope values of cereal grains or other plant foods that were available, however, it is difficult to assess the relative dietary contribution of animal and plant products, and therefore whether the range of foods encountered at Durrington Walls were consumed on a regular basis. “ and “Plant foods such as fruits and tubers are also less likely to have come into contact with fire during processing and may therefore be somewhat underrepresented. “ and even “trace amounts of degraded vegetable waxes were detected in a small number of sherds “ all of which are quite different from the suggestion in the review . You should be grateful I never put the Daily Mail article up Tiompan ;). Problem is the 'real' news is in Antiquity and has to be paid for, and sensationalism is what newspapers are all about. I believe that they would have used other foodstuffs to bulk their diet out. Nuts for a start, they didn't have those pesky grey squirrels around stealing them. Greens such as sorrel, or nettles, and it was custom to eat the new tips of the hawthorn bush up to the Victorian age. I suspect there were women who gathered such things, what about fungi? you would have to work through the poisonous ones of course. Skewed truths are something we are all used to in daily politics, we should always take newspaper reporting with a pinch of salt..... No doubt we all need our own mini Halstatt to deal with media headlines Moss , it's usually exaggeration , gilding the lily etc but the greens /vegetable stuff was more than skewed , it was totally wrong , that's when it needs highlighting . To make matters worse there was a total absence of one important staple and they missed out on that , a major story that is even more telling in relation to the periods general subsistence and economy too , cereals .
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spencer 3070 posts |
Oct 15, 2015, 11:10
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I agree with you totally about the other foodstuffs - you mentioned sorrel, which I will be posting about in another context. Richard Mabey's now venerable but still excellent Food for Free, and also another excellent book that I've mentioned here before, Medicinal Plants in Folk Tradition - An Ethnobotany of Britain and Ireland, by Allen and Hatfield, are both based on ancient knowledge and usage. These two books also compliment each other, as some foodstuffs available to our forebears also have medicinal properties.. what was commonly consumed could be multifuntional. Both have excellent bibliographies for those who wish to study further.
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