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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » geo tangent part 2 (Newgrange) |
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jonmor 150 posts |
Sep 30, 2014, 21:29
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Here's the next one: Newgrange http://www.slideshare.net/heavenshenge/newgrange-the-sentinel This follows on from the geocentric explanation for Stonehenge (we covered it before somewhere). Avebury next.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Oct 01, 2014, 10:30
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Newgrange is a passage grave aligned , like a few major monuments , on a solstice . It also has a huge amount of rock art in and around the monument most attempts at explaining the “meaning” markings tend to consider the whole corpus and their context , not a handful without consideration of context . Unlike the spirals on the entrance stone K 1 ,the sun does not shine directly on the triple double spirals of C10 .“It has two joined vertical spirals with a third “ pulling” the two joined to the north east corner of the chamber “ There is no suggestion of any “pulling “ and I have never seen it mentioned previously by any commentators . On the contrary , what has been noted by others including the excavator O ‘Kelly ‘In order to integrate the left hand spiral into the design the two free ends of its outermost double coil were separated so as to sweep concentrically round the two other spirals and to meet again having encircled the S-spirals. ‘ .Further , if the spiral was doing any “pulling “ it would be to the north west not the north east thus ruining the analogy . Geometric motifs like Lozenges are often found on lintels (there are approx 49 different stones with lozenges and triangles, sometimes together , at Newgrange ) and at specific places in monuments that are not aligned on solstices ,what is important is their architectural setting i.e. lintels and thresholds . A wonderful image of clan representatives filing into the passage to check the meter to see that everything was working fine for yet another year should be inspirational for the graphic comic books , was there a lottery to become a rep ? You don’t have to build monuments like Newgrange to check if the solstice rise spot is going to change . Like most monuments of that type the passage was sealed ,and as we learning they were not open too long ,which would make the effort even more futile . Whilst extreme climate change might lead to an upsurge in monument building there is nothing like extreme changes in Ireland or NW Europe prior to the centuries before the build of Newgrange the millennium before 3200 BC appears to have been very stable and relatively dry . Furthermore there are no mentions in ethnography of marking solstices or astro events in order to understand the climate , it’s always calendrical or related to cosmology . Everything centres on ‘If this were the purpose of the monument ‘ a massive ‘if” and we certainly have no reason to believe so .
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Oct 01, 2014, 12:48
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Hi Jon, I've read through the info on the link very quickly (slides are not displayed due to the web software at work), so I may be missing an important point, but couldn't the warning system essentially be comprised of just two stones? (or posts?)
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Oct 01, 2014, 13:13
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I understand that if the sunrise couldn't be seen on one particular day it might mean a delay, but I do struggle to imagine that that possible delay is a reason to go from a simple alignment to building something such as Newgrange. Its far less elegant but wouldn't a simple series of alignments, based upon the days around solstice resolve the cloudy weather issue, if that was something they were particularly concerned about?
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Oct 01, 2014, 14:13
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: I understand that if the sunrise couldn't be seen on one particular day it might mean a delay, but I do struggle to imagine that that possible delay is a reason to go from a simple alignment to building something such as Newgrange. Its far less elegant but wouldn't a simple series of alignments, based upon the days around solstice resolve the cloudy weather issue, if that was something they were particularly concerned about? And if light was critical for the recording why choose a winter solstice ?
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Oct 01, 2014, 15:22
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tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: I understand that if the sunrise couldn't be seen on one particular day it might mean a delay, but I do struggle to imagine that that possible delay is a reason to go from a simple alignment to building something such as Newgrange. Its far less elegant but wouldn't a simple series of alignments, based upon the days around solstice resolve the cloudy weather issue, if that was something they were particularly concerned about? And if light was critical for the recording why choose a winter solstice ? I suppose there is an argument that the sun might 'keep on going' on it's return south, and therefore, for earliest warning, the recording has to take place at it's farthest 'normal' position south?
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Oct 01, 2014, 16:17
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: I understand that if the sunrise couldn't be seen on one particular day it might mean a delay, but I do struggle to imagine that that possible delay is a reason to go from a simple alignment to building something such as Newgrange. Its far less elegant but wouldn't a simple series of alignments, based upon the days around solstice resolve the cloudy weather issue, if that was something they were particularly concerned about? And if light was critical for the recording why choose a winter solstice ? I suppose there is an argument that the sun might 'keep on going' on it's return south, and therefore, for earliest warning, the recording has to take place at it's farthest 'normal' position south? But doesn't that equally apply to it's extreme position to the north ? Both north and south extremes are easily recorded and remain relatively constant within generations .
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Oct 01, 2014, 17:16
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tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: I understand that if the sunrise couldn't be seen on one particular day it might mean a delay, but I do struggle to imagine that that possible delay is a reason to go from a simple alignment to building something such as Newgrange. Its far less elegant but wouldn't a simple series of alignments, based upon the days around solstice resolve the cloudy weather issue, if that was something they were particularly concerned about? And if light was critical for the recording why choose a winter solstice ? I suppose there is an argument that the sun might 'keep on going' on it's return south, and therefore, for earliest warning, the recording has to take place at it's farthest 'normal' position south? But doesn't that equally apply to it's extreme position to the north ? Both north and south extremes are easily recorded and remain relatively constant within generations . Yes, as we know it would, I understand the reasoning, but I was imagining that might be something they couldn't be certain about. I was imagining that whatever they thought stopped and returned it in the North, that it might be a totally different thing that kept it from going too far south, if you will.
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
Oct 01, 2014, 19:47
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: Yes, as we know it would, I understand the reasoning, but I was imagining that might be something they couldn't be certain about. I have always thought that was something they were absolutely certain about. So certain they could set it in stone.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Oct 01, 2014, 20:06
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Howburn Digger wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: Yes, as we know it would, I understand the reasoning, but I was imagining that might be something they couldn't be certain about. I have always thought that was something they were absolutely certain about. So certain they could set it in stone. Weather permitting , two recordings a year apart should confirm it . Gosseck has a summer solstice alignment and is much earlier than Newgrange ,so no problem there .
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