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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Cornwall » A Separate Place |
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moss 2897 posts |
Edited Apr 26, 2014, 09:31
Apr 26, 2014, 09:29
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Recognition of Cornwall as a separate important minority, the following news link may not be quite megalithic news but the photo of my favourite stone circle certainly is..... http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/26/survival-of-cornish-identity-cornwall-separate-place And there is a Cornwall book coming out in October by the author of the article Philip Marsden which looks interesting.... Rising Ground: A Search for the Spirit of Place. Edit; Forgot to say - Congratulations Cornwall!!
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Apr 26, 2014, 11:40
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Funny that. Cornwall's always felt far more 'English' to me than, say, Cumbria or Yorkshire. Perhaps that's because its the first place I used to go camping as a kid.... guess it depends on what you're used to and how diverse your UK experiences have been.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Apr 26, 2014, 23:05
Apr 26, 2014, 18:31
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GLADMAN wrote: Funny that. Cornwall's always felt far more 'English' to me than, say, Cumbria or Yorkshire. Perhaps that's because its the first place I used to go camping as a kid.... guess it depends on what you're used to and how diverse your UK experiences have been. Initially I thought the same but in the process of making a comment came across this thought provoking article about the history of Cornwall - worth a read. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/cornish_nation_01.shtml It also reminded me that Cornwall is nominally under the jurisdiction of the Duchy of Cornwall so unlikely to be going for independence.
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The Eternal 924 posts |
Apr 27, 2014, 00:28
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GLADMAN wrote: Funny that. Cornwall's always felt far more 'English' to me than, say, Cumbria or Yorkshire. Perhaps that's because its the first place I used to go camping as a kid.... guess it depends on what you're used to and how diverse your UK experiences have been. Hi Gladders, I agree with you; Cornwall has always felt very English to me. Cumbria is very much a very separate county to the country of England (should be Cumberland and Westmorland). Get to know the Cumbrians and you get to know how different they are, as in how different their way of life is, and how different their acceptance of outsiders is. I suppose they could be described as intolerant to what they call off-comers. Nowt wrong with that in my book, although the pc brigade will differ, but stuff them, as I think personal opinion shouldn't be censored. Don't forget Churchill fought for freedom, be it speech or general living. All the best, TE.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Apr 27, 2014, 09:26
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But the Cornish didn't speak English, they spoke Cornish, and isn't language pretty fundamental to separating cultures? It's a long way west and not part of the English shires. It's got the British Celtic thing going on.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Apr 27, 2014, 17:03
Apr 27, 2014, 10:16
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I'm currently reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel - reference is made to the Cornish rebellion of 1497 "It was the year the Cornishmen came roaring up the country, rebels bent on burning London and taking the English king and bending him to their Cornish will" http://www.information-britain.co.uk/famdates.php?id=293 "Blackheath, London, 17th of June 1497 AD The battle of Blackheath was the culmination of the Cornish rebellion that shook Henry VII ’s England in the summer of 1497. The rebellion is a reminder that even at the end of the 15th century England was by no means a homogenous nation. The majority of Cornishmen still spoke their own language rather than English, and regarded their Celtic land as something separate from England."
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Apr 27, 2014, 11:33
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Rhiannon wrote: But the Cornish didn't speak English, they spoke Cornish, and isn't language pretty fundamental to separating cultures? It's a long way west and not part of the English shires. It's got the British Celtic thing going on. Depends on the tense, I guess. If we're talking about the past, then yes. But it would be ineresting to know the current percentage of the population of Cornwall who have long standing roots there? Obviously populations used to be far, far more static before the advent of mass transport, mass migrations notwithstanding - the stereotypical 'old woman never having left her village all her life'. To what degree cultures relate to specific geographical areas nowadays I find an interesting question to ponder. What is the 'culture' of London, for example? I guess most people have a wish to be considered 'special'.... 'we're not like you, we're different'..... To speak of something I have direct experience of... I've often heard talk of 'hiraeth' from people in South Wales and, when pressed to explain why they believe they feel this 'longing', most haven't a clue (there are, of course, exceptions, presenting an opportunity to learn). Never walk the landscape, have no idea about Welsh history, save the very much sanitised nationalist agenda taught in schools (i.e. everythings the fault of the English), are ignorant of, or take no pride in their heritage, riding trail bike over barrows, fly tipping in cairns etc. Yet there is supposed to be a vibrant, popular celtic culture in South Wales? Where is it, then? I would say Rugby surmounts everything instead, an invention from an English public school.... I'm an avid of heritage. Never let it be forgotten what the story of Britain was and is, warts and all, as Cromwell said. We owe it to the here and now and the future to tell the truth. We are what we are because there are so many different people living on these Isles sparring against each other, interacting with each other, or sometimes making war against each other. We are interacting far more now due to ever increasing social mobility to the extent that I work with people brought up on Exmoor, in Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow.... have Welsh family. I reckon the old divisions are breaking down and, whilst we should celebrate the rich tapestry of the past, we should not be looking to create new ones for what seem - to me - purely political ends.
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moss 2897 posts |
Edited Apr 27, 2014, 11:57
Apr 27, 2014, 11:35
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GLADMAN wrote: Funny that. Cornwall's always felt far more 'English' to me than, say, Cumbria or Yorkshire. Perhaps that's because its the first place I used to go camping as a kid.... guess it depends on what you're used to and how diverse your UK experiences have been. Uniqueness can be felt in many places in Great Britain, mostly due to the geographical nature of places. Scotland, Wales and Cornwall have kept their separate languages due to the 'isolated' nature of their somewhat intractable landscapes, as has the North. I like the idea of separateness but not nationalism which scars so many groups. Cornwall deserves, as had Wales over the last few years, the cultural right to use an older language, call it the Celtic fringe, but better still call it individuality...
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Lubin 509 posts |
Apr 27, 2014, 11:58
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The Eternal wrote: GLADMAN wrote: Funny that. Cornwall's always felt far more 'English' to me than, say, Cumbria or Yorkshire. Perhaps that's because its the first place I used to go camping as a kid.... guess it depends on what you're used to and how diverse your UK experiences have been. Hi Gladders, I agree with you; Cornwall has always felt very English to me. Cumbria is very much a very separate county to the country of England (should be Cumberland and Westmorland). Get to know the Cumbrians and you get to know how different they are, as in how different their way of life is, and how different their acceptance of outsiders is. I suppose they could be described as intolerant to what they call off-comers. Nowt wrong with that in my book, although the pc brigade will differ, but stuff them, as I think personal opinion shouldn't be censored. Don't forget Churchill fought for freedom, be it speech or general living. All the best, TE. There was a brilliant programme on BBC2, done by Rory Stewart, a few weeks ago about the area you mention. Well worth a look on catch up if still available.
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thesweetcheat 6218 posts |
Edited Apr 27, 2014, 19:27
Apr 27, 2014, 19:24
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And the Romans barely bothered with Cornwall. Nor did the Angles, Saxons, Vikings or (to a large degree) Normans. The Irish saints paid more attention to Cornwall than any of the invaders of "England" did. So there's almost inevitably a significant difference in heritage and culture, as well as no doubt in ancestry. The view from Cornwall is Atlantic facing, not up-country facing. Personally, I think there's also a difference between Cornwall west of Bodmin moor (and even more so Cornwall west of Hayle River) and elsewhere in the county though. East of the moor has a closer affinity to Devon, which is a decidedly more "English" county in my view, for all the wildness of Dartmoor. [edited for annoyingly unnecessary apostrophe]
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