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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
May 31, 2013, 12:11
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I'm reading Huttons 'Pagan Religions..' at the moment and have been thinking about the evidence for Neolithic occupation found at some, as they remain now, IA hill fort sites. I know finds of Neolithic houses are rare due to the nature of their construction, but I wonder if many, outside of very large communities, will be found on naturally defended areas such as hill tops, meaning a very large number will be under hill forts? Apart from Durrington, Orkney (which is different anyway) I'm not sure in what sort of landscape Neolithic houses have been found in Britain. Were they in naturally defended areas? Are we in the middle of a shift in thinking about the Neolithic in terms of a 'peaceful' time, and should we now consider it war-like, or is the general thinking still that Neolithic occupation of defended areas is an exception?
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tjj 3606 posts |
May 31, 2013, 22:42
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: I'm reading Huttons 'Pagan Religions..' at the moment and have been thinking about the evidence for Neolithic occupation found at some, as they remain now, IA hill fort sites. I know finds of Neolithic houses are rare due to the nature of their construction, but I wonder if many, outside of very large communities, will be found on naturally defended areas such as hill tops, meaning a very large number will be under hill forts? Apart from Durrington, Orkney (which is different anyway) I'm not sure in what sort of landscape Neolithic houses have been found in Britain. Were they in naturally defended areas? Are we in the middle of a shift in thinking about the Neolithic in terms of a 'peaceful' time, and should we now consider it war-like, or is the general thinking still that Neolithic occupation of defended areas is an exception? Marden Henge springs to mind - approximately half way between Avebury and Stonehenge - http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/about/news/neolithic-henges-discovered/ The programme on last night mentioned by Moss on her Doggerland thread 'Britain's Stone Age Tsunami' made the point that after this event when the fertile plain linking Britain to the continent of Europe was drowned by the combination of melting glaciers and a probable tsunami, the sea might have become feared and people may have chosen to move inland away from coastal areas. PS: I attended a talk by Ron Hutton last year about his book on Pagan Religions - very good!
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Jun 01, 2013, 12:34
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Hi tjj, yes, well aware of Marden Henge! But I don't see how it's relevant to a question regarding Neolithic settlement? I went along to Jim Learys talk in Devizes regarding the excavation, and the building on the henge bank doesn't seem to be anything to do with settlement. Perhaps I've missed something?
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Jun 01, 2013, 14:30
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[quote="Evergreen Dazed"]I'm reading Huttons 'Pagan Religions..' at the moment and have been thinking about the evidence for Neolithic occupation found at some, as they remain now, IA hill fort sites. I know finds of Neolithic houses are rare due to the nature of their construction, but I wonder if many, outside of very large communities, will be found on naturally defended areas such as hill tops, meaning a very large number will be under hill forts? Apart from Durrington, Orkney (which is different anyway) I'm not sure in what sort of landscape Neolithic houses have been found in Britain. Were they in naturally defended areas? Are we in the middle of a shift in thinking about the Neolithic in terms of a 'peaceful' time, and should we now consider it war-like, or is the general thinking still that Neolithic occupation of defended areas is an exception?[/quote Hill tops do seem to have been used , relatively recent Irish discoveries are Knocknarea ,Turlough Hill (Co Clare )Mullafarghna (Co Sligo ) in Cornwall Carn Brea and more recent finds at Carn Galver and Helman Tor suggest settlement due to the amount of artefacts found . It was the hill tops that have the best evidence for warfare (as opposed to interpersonal violence ). I've never bought the peaceful Neolithic stuff , it seems to have been politically inspired rather than evidence based , marxist : (Childe ) egalitarian society , everybody poor and happy with no place for the greedy and feminist : (Gimbutas )goddess worship until warrior blokes took over .
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Jun 01, 2013, 18:51
Jun 01, 2013, 14:50
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: Hi tjj, yes, well aware of Marden Henge! But I don't see how it's relevant to a question regarding Neolithic settlement? I went along to Jim Learys talk in Devizes regarding the excavation, and the building on the henge bank doesn't seem to be anything to do with settlement. Perhaps I've missed something? Yes, you're right EGD ... I knew I wasn't saying anything particularly relevant but hoped by answering someone else would say something more helpful. And he did ...
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jun 01, 2013, 16:53
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tiompan wrote: I've never bought the peaceful Neolithic stuff , it seems to have been politically inspired rather than evidence based , marxist : (Childe ) egalitarian society , everybody poor and happy with no place for the greedy and feminist : (Gimbutas )goddess worship until warrior blokes took over . Plus Rousseau - "nothing is so gentle as man in his primitive state" and neo-paganism, which tends to have a bit of a blind spot about what went on.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Jun 01, 2013, 17:10
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nigelswift wrote: tiompan wrote: I've never bought the peaceful Neolithic stuff , it seems to have been politically inspired rather than evidence based , marxist : (Childe ) egalitarian society , everybody poor and happy with no place for the greedy and feminist : (Gimbutas )goddess worship until warrior blokes took over . Plus Rousseau - "nothing is so gentle as man in his primitive state" and neo-paganism, which tends to have a bit of a blind spot about what went on. yep , I never even considered Rousseau or neo pagans /new agers rose tinted views of the "Golden Age "as having anything to offer interpretative archaeology .
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jun 01, 2013, 17:21
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tiompan wrote: yep , I never even considered Rousseau or neo pagans /new agers rose tinted views of the "Golden Age "as having anything to offer interpretative archaeology . Ah, you're one of these people that are keen on evidence. I know just the forum for you, they'd soon knock that out of you.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Jun 01, 2013, 17:46
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nigelswift wrote: tiompan wrote: yep , I never even considered Rousseau or neo pagans /new agers rose tinted views of the "Golden Age "as having anything to offer interpretative archaeology . Ah, you're one of these people that are keen on evidence. I know just the forum for you, they'd soon knock that out of you. I detect ,there are more forums in cyberia and within creationism than on your monitor Horace .
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Edited Jun 02, 2013, 01:15
Jun 02, 2013, 01:13
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tiompan wrote: and feminist : (Gimbutas )goddess worship until warrior blokes took over . Amused me to see her work reduced to that! A little dismissive. And thats to say the least. I don't believe her work was based upon a political feminism at all. "I was not a feminist and never had any thought I would be helping feminists" Marija Gimbuats I would not argue wholesale for her beliefs, but I would argue for her beliefs coming from a place more elevated than that they were politically inspired rather than evidence based.
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