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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Modern memorials as 'ancient monuments' |
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tjj 3606 posts |
Sep 29, 2012, 09:08
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How do we identify modern monuments which have been erected as a memorial to a well known and revered individual. Am prompted to ask this question by the recent entry below the photo of a modern rock art carving: Quote: Hob ... I've debated if it's a good idea to put this photo here, but have decided it must be done. It's under tma's 'artistic/interpretative' section, as it is a photo of a modern carving in the CnR style. In case anyone finds this new CnR motif carved on the outcrops at Blawearie, just across from Old Bewick, please don't mistake it for the real deal. It's a modern carving, created in 2012 to act as a memorial for the mighty Jan Brouwer (rockartuk), creator of the now sadly unavailable British Rock Art Collection online database. Apologies to the rocks, the archaeological record and all, but Jan contributed a heck of a lot of time and effort to the study of these carvings, and it seems fitting he should be accorded this tribute. I can think of quite a few modern 'ancient' monuments - a standing sarsen stone up near Barbury Castle as a monument to Richard Jefferies and Alfred Williams (a plaque attached with some lines of poetry by each). A sarsen stone circle in a park in Wantage as a memorial to John Betjeman. I love the carving in memory to Jan Brouwer and think it fitting. My only concern is how are people informed of its origin - a plaque wouldn't be in the spirit of the setting. No offence to anyone intended by this post - a genuine question of interest/concern.
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drewbhoy 2557 posts |
Sep 29, 2012, 12:21
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A good and well put point Tjj. Personally I wouldn't have any explanation and leave it as a mystery. Jan phoned quite a few times asking me to track down bits of Rock Art up here and I didn't have a clue what he was going on about, sometimes I'm sure he was asking me to check if the RA wasn't there or to find out how it had been moved or destroyed. That somehow made it even better, and I'm sure it was his intention, as I pestered farmers and landowners for information. But if a stone circle/standing stone in a fairly accessible place, then an info board is the obvious answer. Good point tho Tjj :-)
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bladup 1986 posts |
Edited Dec 15, 2012, 19:35
Sep 29, 2012, 12:31
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tjj wrote: How do we identify modern monuments which have been erected as a memorial to a well known and revered individual. Am prompted to ask this question by the recent entry below the photo of a modern rock art carving: Quote: Hob ... I've debated if it's a good idea to put this photo here, but have decided it must be done. It's under tma's 'artistic/interpretative' section, as it is a photo of a modern carving in the CnR style. In case anyone finds this new CnR motif carved on the outcrops at Blawearie, just across from Old Bewick, please don't mistake it for the real deal. It's a modern carving, created in 2012 to act as a memorial for the mighty Jan Brouwer (rockartuk), creator of the now sadly unavailable British Rock Art Collection online database. Apologies to the rocks, the archaeological record and all, but Jan contributed a heck of a lot of time and effort to the study of these carvings, and it seems fitting he should be accorded this tribute. I can think of quite a few modern 'ancient' monuments - a standing sarsen stone up near Barbury Castle as a monument to Richard Jefferies and Alfred Williams (a plaque attached with some lines of poetry by each). A sarsen stone circle in a park in Wantage as a memorial to John Betjeman. I love the carving in memory to Jan Brouwer and think it fitting. My only concern is how are people informed of its origin - a plaque wouldn't be in the spirit of the setting. No offence to anyone intended by this post - a genuine question of interest/concern. I suppose it makes sites like this quite important, to let people know whats old and whats not, soon, you'll pretty much be able to say if it isn't on here, it isn't old enough. Like the other tread said you'll be soon able to check things like that on site [i've never even had a mobile phone though], so it's down to people like us to let people know whats old and whats not, you don't have to worry about the stone circle we built because they pulled it down with diggers, but a list of new monuments would be handy for people [it seems like there's loads of them nowadays], as these sort of websites just show ancient sites [as they should], so it would be handy if someone at some point started a list of modern monuments before some do start getting confused with ancient ones [although most look so bad it would be hard to].
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drewbhoy 2557 posts |
Sep 29, 2012, 12:47
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That also is a good idea about a modern prehistoric site, maybe it should be a subsection of this place.
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bladup 1986 posts |
Sep 29, 2012, 15:16
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drewbhoy wrote: That also is a good idea about a modern prehistoric site, maybe it should be a subsection of this place. There's that many things been built, that like tjj says it may get quite confusing for people in the future, there is always a way of finding out whether something is old, just not the other way round, people have to be careful though because before long something may get wrecked because someone "said" it was just modern.
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Resonox 604 posts |
Sep 29, 2012, 15:22
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I suppose a prime example of such is the Pyrford stone circle....There are also standing stones sited as centre pieces in some new-build housing estates...I did have a pic of such a site in Reigate, now I'll have to trawl all my libraries to see if I saved it (on the off-chance someone would like to see it)
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Sep 29, 2012, 17:15
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A friend was commissioned to do some rock art and other rock sculptings for the forestry Commission at Weem .Someone complained and said they should be dated . personally I don't see why you should . If you can't tell the difference , tough , did you like it ?
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Sep 29, 2012, 17:27
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Personally I'd engrave a little dedication below. Keep it within the rock rather than as an external plaque. My personal gripe is all the modern stone circles springing up on estates and parks around Wales. To be fair, I've never looked at them closely, so perhaps they may incorparate a dedication upon one of the stones? But if not future historians could well be thinking there was a revival of Bronze Age culture in the 21st century!
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Hob 4033 posts |
Sep 29, 2012, 18:02
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tiompan wrote: Someone complained and said they should be dated . personally I don't see why you should. I'm working on this same premise with modern CnR motifs. The one at Blawearie for example, is so obviously the work of metal tools, with peck marks fresh as daisies, even when it's weathered in after a few years, it should still be clear to a half-experienced eye that this isn't the real deal.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Sep 29, 2012, 18:06
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GLADMAN wrote: Personally I'd engrave a little dedication below. Keep it within the rock rather than as an external plaque. My personal gripe is all the modern stone circles springing up on estates and parks around Wales. To be fair, I've never looked at them closely, so perhaps they may incorparate a dedication upon one of the stones? But if not future historians could well be thinking there was a revival of Bronze Age culture in the 21st century! That was the eventual result , due to a bit of pressure from a local archaeo person . That's the point , let them work it out . It's what people do , find out why .
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