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Natural or Induced?
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Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Natural or Induced?
Aug 25, 2012, 11:44
Many believe that our Neolithic/Bronze Age ancestors had a serious 'religious' aspect to their lives and were seriously guided by it on a day to day basis. I don't doubt it personally and have said many times that I felt they possibly lived their lives in the hope of entering the Afterlife once their earthly journey was over. Now, if true, do you think it was a natural 'built-in' belief or induced into them at some time during the Neolithic or whenever?
bladup
bladup
1986 posts

Re: Natural or Induced?
Aug 25, 2012, 14:11
Sanctuary wrote:
Many believe that our Neolithic/Bronze Age ancestors had a serious 'religious' aspect to their lives and were seriously guided by it on a day to day basis. I don't doubt it personally and have said many times that I felt they possibly lived their lives in the hope of entering the Afterlife once their earthly journey was over. Now, if true, do you think it was a natural 'built-in' belief or induced into them at some time during the Neolithic or whenever?


I still live like this now!! I also believe that the soul can past from one body to another at death or maybe even before [ like the romans said the druids did ] , i have always had an obsession with the stars and the movement of the planets, also the belief in entering the afterlife [good and bad] is the root of all todays shitty religions, the hope of going somewhere good if you are good is one hell of a control system that has been in place for a long long time, so may be "built in" to good people, All these things were in me from my first memories [ they weren't taught to me in this life ], so could be built in or induced at some point in a past life, i think the answer is a little bit of both, and never discount hallucinogens [ eg magic mushrooms ] because they make non initiated people suddenly see things very differently [ during and forever afterwards], so massive brews of mushrooms in the neolithic is probably the real answer, and there is some proof of this in the beaker from balfarg henge, as when the leftover substance was tested it had various hallucinogens in the beaker, so it's safe to say that if anyone drank it, it would have been [ and seen to be ] very mind altering, and remember this was the first mind altering drink, a long time before alcohol, and we all know how popular that became!!!!
tiompan
tiompan
5758 posts

Re: Natural or Induced?
Aug 25, 2012, 14:33
bladup wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
Many believe that our Neolithic/Bronze Age ancestors had a serious 'religious' aspect to their lives and were seriously guided by it on a day to day basis. I don't doubt it personally and have said many times that I felt they possibly lived their lives in the hope of entering the Afterlife once their earthly journey was over. Now, if true, do you think it was a natural 'built-in' belief or induced into them at some time during the Neolithic or whenever?


I still live like this now!! I also believe that the soul can past from one body to another at death or maybe even before [ like the romans said the druids did ] , i have always had an obsession with the stars and the movement of the planets, also the belief in entering the afterlife [good and bad] is the root of all todays shitty religions, the hope of going somewhere good if you are good is one hell of a control system that has been in place for a long long time, so may be "built in" to good people, All these things were in me from my first memories [ they weren't taught to me in this life ], so could be built in or induced at some point in a past life, i think the answer is a little bit of both, and never discount hallucinogens [ eg magic mushrooms ] because they make non initiated people suddenly see things very differently [ during and forever afterwards], so massive brews of mushrooms in the neolithic is probably the real answer, and there is some proof of this in the beaker from balfarg henge, as when the leftover substance was tested it had various hallucinogens in the beaker, so it's safe to say that if anyone drank it, it would have been [ and seen to be ] very mind altering, and remember this was the first mind altering drink, a long time before alcohol, and we all know how popular that became!!!!


It was never suggested that a Balfarg sherd had traces of anything mycological , amanita or liberty cap , the suggestion was it may have had traces of black henbane and that claim was refuted 12 years ago in the JAS .
stagman
10 posts

Re: Natural or Induced?
Aug 25, 2012, 16:21
tiompan wrote:
the suggestion was it may have had traces of black henbane and that claim was refuted 12 years ago in the JAS .


Can you give the correct reference to this please? I was at Balfarg last week & read in PSAS 123 “the identification of quantities of Solanaceae pollen and Hyoscyamus niger (black henbane) seeds encrusted on one of the Grooved Ware vessels”. If you could forward some info showing this as a mistkae I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks - Stag
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Natural or Induced?
Aug 25, 2012, 16:35
bladup wrote:
stagman wrote:
bladup wrote:
I believe with all my soul, and i believe the belief came from mushrooms.


As a great mushroom user for many years, they taught me that all beliefs - whether in science, afterlife, judaism, etc - are just beliefs. Destroy all beliefs and what remains become metaphors of enquiry, preventing the superego from infecting our intellects, or logic, or thoughts about Moses, etc.


All my beliefs were there in this life long before any mushrooms or anything else, i was saying that i think a lot of ancient knowledge came from mushrooms.


This wasn't reflected in their long barrows where there wasn't mushroom :-)
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6213 posts

Re: Natural or Induced?
Aug 25, 2012, 16:39
Did a large part of this thread just go missing?
bladup
bladup
1986 posts

Re: Natural or Induced?
Aug 25, 2012, 16:40
Yes.
TMA Ed
615 posts

You have been warned.
Aug 25, 2012, 16:40
Contributors to this (pruned) topic should remind themselves of the 'stirring and banning' thread above.

Try not to bite please.

TMA Ed.
TMA Ed
615 posts

Re: You have been warned.
Aug 25, 2012, 16:44
I also refer you to the submission guidelines.
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/submission_guidelines/
tiompan
tiompan
5758 posts

Re: Natural or Induced?
Aug 25, 2012, 16:47
stagman wrote:
tiompan wrote:
the suggestion was it may have had traces of black henbane and that claim was refuted 12 years ago in the JAS .


Can you give the correct reference to this please? I was at Balfarg last week & read in PSAS 123 “the identification of quantities of Solanaceae pollen and Hyoscyamus niger (black henbane) seeds encrusted on one of the Grooved Ware vessels”. If you could forward some info showing this as a mistkae I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks - Stag


Hello Stagman ,
you can read it here .
ww.thefreelibrary.com/The+use+of+henbane+(Hyoscyamus+niger+L.)+as+a+hallucinogen+at...-a065536954
This is from Antiquity ,the JAS paper is listed in the biblio.
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