Littlestone
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Edited Jul 22, 2012, 16:15
A shot in the dark
Jul 22, 2012, 16:06
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...well why not. Whacky ideas are fun so here’s one to add to the stack...
Why are so many of the Welsh cromlech capstones shaped and positioned as they are – that is with the thin pointy end pointing downwards while the fatter end points upwards (the fatter end also being the entrance to the cromlech which might be relevant to this item of wackiness).
Standing recently, and directly under the pointy end of Carreg Samson, it’s striking how symmetrical it is and, in profile, how much like an arrowhead it is (the resemblance to an arrowhead is really pronounced with the capstone at Pentre Ifan). Knowing what we know about early concepts of the underworld (especially in relation to water) is it stretching the imagination too far to suggest that these arrowhead-shaped capstones might be sending (shooting :-) the spirit(s) of the departed to a chosen place in the land or sea?
Then again I might still be living Robin Hood’s last request to be buried where his arrow fell – made me cry that did, and I was only six or seven when I first read it :-(
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thesweetcheat
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Re: A shot in the dark
Jul 22, 2012, 16:16
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Okay, what proportion of Welsh capstones are (a) pointy and (b) have the pointy end downwards?
Scientific analysis required!
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Littlestone
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Re: A shot in the dark
Jul 22, 2012, 16:23
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thesweetcheat wrote: Okay, what proportion of Welsh capstones are (a) pointy and (b) have the pointy end downwards?
Scientific analysis required!
I dunno you tell me :-)
More than a few do though, and if they’re not representing a whacky arrowhead theory why is the shape and positioning of those the same?
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thesweetcheat
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Re: A shot in the dark
Jul 22, 2012, 16:31
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Erm, could be aesthetic reasons, or because you've got to put it up one way or the other, so there's a 50% chance of the pointy end being downwards, or because you want the wider end at the entrance for maximum portal-ness (Maen-y-Bardd would be an example where the wider end is the entrance but the pointy end - the back of the chamber - is level), or even just slippage.
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Littlestone
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Re: A shot in the dark
Jul 23, 2012, 13:32
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thesweetcheat wrote: Erm, could be aesthetic reasons, or because you've got to put it up one way or the other, so there's a 50% chance of the pointy end being downwards, or because you want the wider end at the entrance for maximum portal-ness (Maen-y-Bardd would be an example where the wider end is the entrance but the pointy end - the back of the chamber - is level), or even just slippage.
Aye, could be any of those.
But put another way, if ‘archaeologists' 5,000 years hence stumbled on three - just three - ancient stone foundations in a relatively small area, and all in the shape of a cross, with the longest section of the cross aligned roughly east-west (in all three) it’d be reasonable for them to assume that the shape and positioning of those foundations had meaning for their builders, and that those structures might once have been part of some sort of belief system... more especially if there were human remains in or nearby the foundations.
Bob Trubshaw’s Church orientation feature, though not directly related, is quite interesting.
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tiompan
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Re: A shot in the dark
Jul 24, 2012, 11:53
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Littlestone wrote:
Why are so many of the Welsh cromlech capstones shaped and positioned as they are – that is with the thin pointy end pointing downwards while the fatter end points upwards (the fatter end also being the entrance to the cromlech which might be relevant to this item of wackiness).
just three - ancient stone foundations in a relatively small area, and all in the shape of a cross, with the longest section of the cross aligned roughly east-west (in all three) it’d be reasonable for them to assume that the shape and positioning of those foundations had meaning for their builders, and that those structures might once have been part of some sort of belief system...
It is entirely relevant . The entrance requires two stones some space apart to form a portal which is bound to have a wider area than the rear which can often be one backstone .The pointy end is at the rear to suit the architecture . There is only one exception of the backstone being higher than the portal stones http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/2016/fenagh_beg.html .
Nearly half of portal tombs face a general East and nearly always aligned along a valley with the entrance facing the source of a water course these points are clearly related to UK/Irish geomorphology .
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Littlestone
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Re: A shot in the dark
Jul 24, 2012, 16:20
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Yes, interesting.
Any idea as to why the pointy end should face down though. I can’t quite see how that would suit the architecture (though it would help with drainage I suppose).
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tiompan
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Re: A shot in the dark
Jul 24, 2012, 19:48
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Littlestone wrote: Yes, interesting.
Any idea as to why the pointy end should face down though. I can’t quite see how that would suit the architecture (though it would help with drainage I suppose).
A couple of thoughts .
The function doesn’t suggest the need for an entrance leading to a bigger space i.e. as found in say a passage grave where relatively small entrances allows movement into larger spaces /chambers . The internal areas of portal tombs are small with little room for anything like the activities likely to be found in a passage grave but they do need an entrance .
If the pointy end was higher then the load would be even greater on the entrance stones and also increase the likelihood of slippage .
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thesweetcheat
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Re: A shot in the dark
Jul 24, 2012, 20:10
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So basically the layout (including the pointy end's relationship with the perpendicular) is as likely to be down to practical engineering considerations as otherwise significant?
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tiompan
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Re: A shot in the dark
Jul 24, 2012, 21:06
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thesweetcheat wrote: So basically the layout (including the pointy end's relationship with the perpendicular) is as likely to be down to practical engineering considerations as otherwise significant?
Only in that the builders were constrained by practical problems like gravity , the monument could not be expected to survive if the heavier end was much lower than the ligher end just as a a Stonehenge lintel would eventually slip mortise and tenon notwithstanding , if it was not level . But the practicalities still allow for innovative design , a level capstone is one option .
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