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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Sense of Place |
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moss 2897 posts |
Edited Apr 01, 2012, 11:19
Apr 01, 2012, 09:57
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Well this quotation sparked off a thought today! "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe." John Muir Sense of place, I could have used power of place but I just don't like the word power and the images it contains. Sense of place can of course be caught in a photo, Brian Kerr, Sian Williams and Gladman amongst many on this forum. But it was Gladman's photos of high places that caught the eye, the deserted bleakness of high mountain tops with their steep slopes and screes of rocks. Jan Morris once wrote, that you only need to take a metre square of Wales to understand its history, underneath that thin film of grass is rock, often beautifully coloured and magnificent but hardly conducive to farming. So what do I mean by sense of place in relation to the prehistoric stones that are visited and debated over. Sometimes I think the human involvement in erecting stones is not important, we are creatures of creativity and invention it would follow that we would develop our world with the materials to hand. No it is the natural world that invokes the sense of awe and wonderment, the perfection of the wing of a bird, the colour of a flower or the massivity of a great mountain and perhaps their interconnectivity to everything around them as expressed by John Muir above. This always strikes me as I touch the stones at Pentre Ifan, the millions of years the stone was so long ago created, if you walk along parts of the coast of West Wales, you will see the great vertical folding of the rocks after some upheaval of the Earth - geological history writ large. Stoney Littleton has the symbolic image of an ammonite at its doorway, and beautifully shaped stones in the tomb itself. But for me Stoney Littleton represents the little Wellow river with trailing water plants floating in the current and a rich wild planting of flowers lining its banks in summer, also the stoniness of the field you walk through as you approach the long barrow, probably evidence of its' creation. Many of our prehistoric stones, barrows, etc remain in the wild places of the moors and high mountains, the last remaining bits of 'wildness' in this small country, perhaps that is what draws people to seek prehistory out.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Apr 01, 2012, 19:09
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Here is another quotation to go with yours Moss: The voyage of discovery is not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. Marcel Proust
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Apr 01, 2012, 20:00
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'The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible' - Oscar Wilde. Love that quote... since I reckon every prehistoric monument I've ever been to has been an attempt by the community which built it to explain why things are as they are and - the key point - to reassure themselves that things aren't suddenly going to change. If we could satisfy ourselves as to why the sun sits in the sky ripening the crops, why the moon returns night after night, a glowing ball of light.... why the blackbird acts so differently from the starling, from the finch, we could look forward to stability, continuity, a world to pass on to the children. Understanding. Are we so different nowadays? Clearly mankind has always had this inquisitive 'need to know why', which is why I find religions quoting 'the final meaning of life, period' so distasteful... to put it mildly. Accepting a 'final' metaphysical explanation just because the answer currently lies beyond our comprehension is the easy, lazy way out. I reckon every new generation has a duty to push the boundaries of our perception that little bit further. To explain what's there, not what's not there. 'Sense of place', for me, is all about a location's relationship with 'what's there' (incidentally, apologies for all the inverted commas.... if I had the proper terms I'd use them), not only the life-giving river down below, the cloud forming mountain rising above, but the sun in the impossibly immense sky, the equally immense night sky free from all the light pollution we so take for granted, the animals migrating and returning at the same time every year etc. For me it really is all too wondrous for words, but only when I'm out of town and the brain has the chance to filter out all the 'noise' and try and really focus. Which is perhaps why the high places have always really 'done it' for me. Nothing but you and raw Nature. Oh and - more often than not - the great cairn or barrow remining you that people have been up here ages before myself trying to fathom the same puzzles. We are but the latest. Incidentally many thanks for the kind words Moss. Although I am no way strong enough to carry the sort of tripod which would warrant a better camera, I do try and compensate for lack of technical quality by looking to capture something of what I feel in my images. A 'sense of place', if you like. 'The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera...' Dorothea Lange
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Apr 01, 2012, 21:10
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The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible Maybe, though I think I prefer Novalis’, “All that is visible, clings to the invisible, the audible to the inaudible, the tangible to the intangible. Perhaps the thinkable to the unthinkable”. But who knows, after a bad night out (or even a worse incarnation) I think I’ll stick with OW’s, “We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” ;-) Nice piece of writing moss.
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Apr 01, 2012, 21:36
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Littlestone wrote: The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible Maybe, though I think I prefer Novalis’, “All that is visible, clings to the invisible, the audible to the inaudible, the tangible to the intangible. Perhaps the thinkable to the unthinkable”. But who knows, after a bad night out (or even a worse incarnation) I think I’ll stick with OW’s, “We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” ;-) Nice piece of writing moss. Hmm. Wasn't he the bloke who reckoned music and algebra were much the same?
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CARL 511 posts |
Apr 02, 2012, 07:37
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'You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must ne lead' - Stan Laurel. it's about as much as my little mind can manage at this time of the morning!
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Apr 02, 2012, 08:15
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CARL wrote: 'You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must ne lead' - Stan Laurel. it's about as much as my little mind can manage at this time of the morning! That's another fine mess you've got yourself into Carl :-)
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CARL 511 posts |
Apr 02, 2012, 14:07
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I couldn't help it.......... :)
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Apr 03, 2012, 08:54
Apr 02, 2012, 22:30
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moss wrote: Sometimes I think the human involvement in erecting stones is not important, we are creatures of creativity and invention it would follow that we would develop our world with the materials to hand. No it is the natural world that invokes the sense of awe and wonderment, the perfection of the wing of a bird, the colour of a flower or the massivity of a great mountain and perhaps their interconnectivity to everything around them as expressed by John Muir above. This always strikes me as I touch the stones at Pentre Ifan, the millions of years the stone was so long ago created, if you walk along parts of the coast of West Wales, you will see the great vertical folding of the rocks after some upheaval of the Earth - geological history writ large. Stoney Littleton has the symbolic image of an ammonite at its doorway, and beautifully shaped stones in the tomb itself. But for me Stoney Littleton represents the little Wellow river with trailing water plants floating in the current and a rich wild planting of flowers lining its banks in summer, also the stoniness of the field you walk through as you approach the long barrow, probably evidence of its' creation. Many of our prehistoric stones, barrows, etc remain in the wild places of the moors and high mountains, the last remaining bits of 'wildness' in this small country, perhaps that is what draws people to seek prehistory out. Your post prompted me to re-visit Bob Trubshaw's book (published 2005) Sacred Places - Prehistory and Popular Imagination - I came upon it last year when Bob Trubshaw gave a talk in my local library. In his chapter "Thinking about places" he talks about Western 'hegemony' - the main characteristic of which is that there is only one way to see the world. It is an extremely readable book and I do recommend it. He does include a section on the Pembrokeshire prehistoric monuments and makes the observation that generally they seem to be near the sea but located in positions where the sea is either obscured of can only be glimpsed - often near prominent outcrops of stone. I do agree with his point that we can only experience ancient (or sacred) places in the present and through our 'present' conditioning. Also agree with your point that it is flora/fauna and weather conditions, i.e. Nature, that make the experience memorable.
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Resonox 604 posts |
Apr 20, 2012, 15:47
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Got to thinking about this thread today...driving up the A25 from Reigate to Dorking...passing Reigate Heath...there isn't anything there except for the barrow remains....yet at one time this area attracted settlers ...so what gave them the "sense of place"?...Was it as Gladman (I think) says..the surrounding environment an views of the hills etc which decided it for these early people or was it simply a good water supply.....the strange thing is...in winter this area often has one of the lowest temperature readings in England....did our ancestors know something we have forgotten and can't even guess at. Of course some barrows, mounds and stones are in sensual places and/or places which corelate to the surrounding topography...but does anyone ever get "sense of place" feelings in places where there is nothing at all..just something from within yourself?..I don't mean like dowsing because that implies there is something nor do I mean something asthetic...like a bluebell wood....just a feeling that although there is nothing there, nor has there ever been...you feel a stone/mound/barrow should've been there?
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