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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Why do we do this? |
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Jul 02, 2011, 23:40
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Guess this is the perennial question - no doubt asked before - but why do TMA members visit ancient sites, bearing in mind that every one else I know (except the Mam C and my mum) doesn't give the first damn about them? Guess these musings arose (again) from some soul searching during a recent tour of Scotland - see fieldnotes to Upper Lagmore, if interested - that there must be easier hobbies. So why do it?
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wideford 1086 posts |
Jul 03, 2011, 08:58
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Because it's there. The real question is why archaeology in particular ? [Guess we'll have to wait until people are back by their work's computers from research in the field for an answer ;-) ] An interest in history even when it is pre-history, going out there and viewing the real deal - fleshing out the official records, seeing any mis-match, finding new features and coming to our own conclusions. And Mother nature dropping her pearls before our eyes whilst we do so.
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postman 848 posts |
Jul 03, 2011, 10:57
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I'm looking for something, something that doesnt really have a name, I'm not sure what it is, i'm only hoping that I'll know it when I see it. I cant find it in pubs, clubs, or football grounds, It's not at work, or in any shop. It is in the faces of my children, it is in the clouds, in the roar of a waterfall, its in a quickly forgotten dream, and its in the mysteries and inconsistencies of life. It isnt really about finding the answer, there might not be one, only in the looking for it. People dont give a damn because they havent been exposed to it. they dont teach pre celts at school, I only stumbled across all this by accident (or fate) Ive spoken to other posties at work and whilst they havent exactly picked up the torch, so to speak some are quite interested, a couple even asked where I went for the solstice, I even ask where some are holidaying and tell them of any nearby megalithic wonders. I dont know why I do it, only that it feels good. Actually I do, but it would be far too long and too dull.
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Jul 03, 2011, 11:00
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GLADMAN wrote: Guess this is the perennial question - no doubt asked before - but why do TMA members visit ancient sites, bearing in mind that every one else I know (except the Mam C and my mum) doesn't give the first damn about them? Guess these musings arose (again) from some soul searching during a recent tour of Scotland - see fieldnotes to Upper Lagmore, if interested - that there must be easier hobbies. So why do it? Difficult to explain, but for me it's like paying homage to our great ancestors who built it all and a sort of 'coming home' thing. Don't you all feel a comfortable warmth but at the same time a sense of loss when visiting, because I do! And I feel regret at leaving as well like I have unfinished business. It's what brings me back I suppose, still looking for something deep down I know I am never likely to find or be a real part of, but will never stop looking or trying to be.
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Jul 03, 2011, 12:03
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postman wrote: It is in the faces of my children, it is in the clouds, in the roar of a waterfall, its in a quickly forgotten dream, and its in the mysteries and inconsistencies of life. It isnt really about finding the answer, there might not be one, only in the looking for it. That's beautiful, and so very true.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Jul 03, 2011, 14:23
Jul 03, 2011, 13:50
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postman wrote: I'm looking for something, something that doesnt really have a name, I'm not sure what it is, i'm only hoping that I'll know it when I see it. I cant find it in pubs, clubs, or football grounds, It's not at work, or in any shop. It is in the faces of my children, it is in the clouds, in the roar of a waterfall, its in a quickly forgotten dream, and its in the mysteries and inconsistencies of life. It isnt really about finding the answer, there might not be one, only in the looking for it. People dont give a damn because they havent been exposed to it. they dont teach pre celts at school, I only stumbled across all this by accident (or fate) Ive spoken to other posties at work and whilst they havent exactly picked up the torch, so to speak some are quite interested, a couple even asked where I went for the solstice, I even ask where some are holidaying and tell them of any nearby megalithic wonders. I dont know why I do it, only that it feels good. Actually I do, but it would be far too long and too dull. Beautifully expressed - there is some poetry in there Postman. I liked Wideford's sentence "And Mother nature dropping her pearls before our eyes whilst we do so" too. Why do we do this? This question leads to so many others like “where did the interest start”. For me it has to be Avebury, a place I initially used as a bolt hole on my day off, a gateway to a what was for me anyway, a mystical landscape. That landscape will always feel like home even on the occasions when Avebury itself becomes another busy place to avoid. Then I started reading this forum and was inspired (see above post). Some of the sites mentioned felt, and still feel, like exotic portals to a different world and the amazing thing is you don’t have to travel around the planet to see them. Every stone circle I’ve ever visited, or have yet to visit, had a unique quality – some induced elation which was to do with the setting as much as the stones. I’m not an archaeologist and have no ambition to achieve even amateur status in that direction – you don’t need to be one to enjoy tracking down ancient sites, which by and large, belong to us all.
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Jul 03, 2011, 15:30
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Guess it was rather lazy not to copy and paste the offending passage after asking the question.... spent quite some time after the Upper Lagmore experience trying to finally put something down that actually said what I felt, as opposed to the usual 'it's just, like, wow'...... whereby people usually get that look in the eye, as if to say 'been at the evostik again, have we?' Not sure exposing people to ancient sites is key... the volume of graffitti, litter etc at some of the places I've been to would suggest it's more a question of character... not necessarily an intelligent mind, but an enquiring one that needs to think to consider itself alive, not merely existing. Some of my friends need noise all the time and openly say they find what I do 'boring'. Simply put, they just don't 'get it'. I guess you either do or you don't. The below is an attempt to expalin why I do. 'Visiting an ancient site evokes emotions which I find very difficult to put into words. I suppose I could cite the stereotypical, dumb male reticence for emotion and pretend it's just 'something to do'... but at the end of the day you have to answer to the inner self, you know? So what is it which inspires me to seek out yet another obscure megalithic monument, when I could be doing what 'normal' men do, such as a 'thrilling' round of golf at the course across the way, perhaps? Is it an attempt to allay the uncertainty of purpose, of meaning, even - seemingly endemic within a society shorn of the mass anaesthesia of monotheistic religious belief - by returning to the places our ancestors gathered in an attempt to assuage the very same fundamental fears they clearly shared? A desire, perhaps, to achieve some sort of continuity of human experience through exposure to the same inspiring landscape and - just perhaps - learn from their mistakes? To feel I'm actually a part of some ongoing quest, one small piece of the human jigsaw spinning through an unimaginable void on a journey to Stephen-Hawkings-knows-where. In short, perhaps I feel the need to experience raw emotion, the 'stuff' that defines us as a species? Or is all this just pretentious delusion? The sort of discourse that ensures a woman's eyes glaze over so you don't get laid? 'That's a fascinating hobby.... oh, is that the time?' Or perhaps I could just take you to the centre of Upper Lagmore and say 'this is why I do what I do'. To be here. Right now. Yeah, when all is said and done, the Neolithic and Bronze Age inhabitants of these islands left us with perhaps the most articulate, enigmatic statements of what it really means to live upon this Earth... in the form of their standing stones, mounds and cairns. Perhaps as a species we really do 'say it best when we say nothing at all'? For me they achieved - hell, still achieve - the reconcilliation of this apparent contradiction by forming a 'connection' between the observer and the landscape itself... so that we appear to observe no more but, instead, are actually directly involved with the natural occurrences of this planet. No longer just some creatures plonked upon the surface by a 'higher entity', but an integral part of this evolving planet, making it up as we go along... with all the responsibilities that entails. Not children any more, but adults facing reality. Daunting, isn't it?
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thesweetcheat 6219 posts |
Jul 03, 2011, 16:53
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Can't you ask us a nice easy question sometimes? I think postie and others already have it (or at least have an idea what they're looking for). I don't know why I do it, but it fills most of my waking thoughts these days. Obsessive? Definitely. My first exposure came late - Arbor Low, in 1997. Seen on a map while staying in a Peak District cottage, thought it looked interesting. I was hit by it with, well, something. Nine Ladies followed and it's been an increasing need ever since. The Welsh mountains have taken the obsession to another level again, and some inner need to visit every Welsh mountain top has imposed a further degree of challenge. Scotland has added even more to the general feeling of having so little time and so much to see. "Neither snow nor rain, nor gloom of night, shall stay these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds" - perhaps more apposite for postie than me, but I am compelled to visit these places, to say I was there, no matter how grim the weather or how far I have to travel. If I fail in finding a site, I feel genuinely aggrieved, let down and disappointed. I've had pouring rain in the Radnor mountains and on exposed Dartmoor, blizzards in the Cotswolds, fog in the Berwyns, blazing sunshine in West Penwith and Snowdon (and now at Penmaenmawr) and all of it is wonderful - well okay the foggy, boggy Berwyns walk left something to be desired! Even map-buying has become obsessive, to find new places. I spend my working days wishing I was out in the hills. But that doesn't answer "why", does it? So: It makes me feel free It makes me feel part of a much bigger universe and an impossibly long chain of humanity It makes me feel calm It makes me feel euphoric, sometimes It touches me deeply, often It has taken me to the most beautiful places It has taken me to meet some lovely people It makes me feel alive, every time
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Jul 03, 2011, 21:20
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thesweetcheat wrote: Can't you ask us a nice easy question sometimes? It makes me feel part of a much bigger universe and an impossibly long chain of humanity....... Sorry SC... you must know I don't do easy questions since 'easy' means you've already got the answer and don't have to think.... and thinking is probably our only 'special skill', not being able to fly, run at 40 miles an hour, or spin a home from our abdomen... in fact being pretty useless . I don't think there is any one answer... but I've picked out the above as perhaps my favourie of yours. What is interesting in the posts so far is a complete absence of 'wow, man... cos I speak to aliens there and they tell me stuff'. I'm sure this is the stereotype the vast majority of the general public have of us... and it's just not true. Guess it's obvious I don't believe in the supernatural per se, but I do believe the brain can be manipulated to really believe stuff that isn't there, the effect of which is arguably 'real'... my Grandad saw pink spiders crawling up the walls when he was pissed, and, to all intents and purposes, they we're real for him.... religion depends on such deceptions as long as they are taken at face value. That's why I'm so interested in attempting to critically disect the techniques the Neolithic and Bronze Age priests appear to have used siting their monuments... even with my detachment they get me more often than not.... That intriuges me greatly. G
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thesweetcheat 6219 posts |
Jul 03, 2011, 22:24
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GLADMAN wrote: That's why I'm so interested in attempting to critically disect the techniques the Neolithic and Bronze Age priests appear to have used siting their monuments... even with my detachment they get me more often than not.... That intriuges me greatly. G You have set yourself a task there my friend. I guess that they had the advantage of a landscape much less cluttered than what we see today. Few boundary features, houses, trackways, no telegraph wires, chimneys, etc. That should have made the task of picking a sweet spot that bit easier at any rate. Oh, and no light pollution, so if you're lining things up on celestial bodies that must help. Up at Penmaenmawr, Blossom pointed out the number of erratics around the area of the Druid's Circle. They were obviously there in the Neolithic and Bronze Age, and it is impossible to imagine that they didn't play a part in deciding what went were. Even early boundary lines must have been most easily determined between people by saying "oh, then it runs from the big round rock, down to the head of the spring, along the valley, etc". Because they'd all know which big round rock you were talking about. Water sources, rocky outcrops dominating the landscape, the number of monuments that clearly relate in some way to those things (even though I've no idea "how"). Because much of it still resonates, subconsciously, when we visit now. Or maybe they sometimes just picked a spot with a lovely view, because not everything has to be ritually sited or aligned on anything I guess. Using yesterday as an example again, why not just choose a spot like the area above Penmeanmawr to hang about in? Mountains, sea, what more could you want if you're going to spend time there contemplating the universe. Maybe it wasn't any different back then?
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