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The Pagan 'problem'
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Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 08:21
Let NT and EH report to THEM, hold Round Table and site meetings to keep THEM informed and allow one of their representatives to climb Silbury annually to proclaim "There is no God!" It's all about democracy, not misinterpreting some nancy advice in Conservation Guidelines that says always involve the locals and those for whom the places are special. It's the 21st century, we all have the internet and transport so we're ALL local and we ALL have very, very special interest in the places so how about outreaching to and flattering and fully informing US?! And FIRST - since we vastly outnumber the others and we're paying the bills!


Hear, hear! Blatant favouritism reared its ugly head yet again recently when 'locals' were invited to the Later Silbury Dig. This from English Heritage's Later Silbury Excavation Blog "Despite keeping an intentional low profile – as far as possible when so obvious! – we have long wanted to continue our engagement with local residents, and to give them an opportunity to look around the site. A few days ago, then, we placed a couple of discreet posters on parish noticeboards, and, given the time of year – late summer harvesting – and the time of week..."

Why 'discreet posters on parish notice boards' and not on the EH blog? Why only engage with 'locals' when boards like TMA are self-evident of a wide interest in archaeology in general and megaliths in particular? If EH is worried about attendance numbers then 'tickets' should be restricted and allocated democratically on a first-come basis.

As you say, Nigel, "It's the 21st century, we all have the internet and transport so we're ALL local and we ALL have very, very special interest in the places so how about outreaching to and flattering and fully informing US?!"
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 08:45
I don't want to get into EH or NT bashing when so many in EH are threatened by the cuts but I hope one good thing at least comes from EH merging with the lottery fund - that they'll finally "get it" that they're guardians not proprietors.

(I reckon that's what's behind almost every criticism that's ever been levelled at either organisation since the year dot).
moss
moss
2897 posts

Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 08:57
Well I'm with Jane on this one.. I have been stunned into contemplation this week of some gorgeous lilies on the table that have slowly opened and revealed perfect form and colour. Marvelled at the seductive beauty of the flowers that is put on to entice any passing insect so that the gentle brush of a wing will shake the pollen from the male stamen onto the pistil, down into the ovary...sheer reproductive sex, and the will to exist..
There is no god to come anywhere near the absolute complexity of nature and its ability to create perfect forms that adapt to the conditions around it. ;)
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6219 posts

Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 08:59
juamei wrote:
Sorry I was a touch blunter than I intended.

To clarify, I'm saying nothing about the beneficial effects of the I Ching, on yours or anyones life. Just that to follow its guidance one must take a leap of faith that the path the I Ching shows you is going to be a beneficial one.

I understand and appreciate the role faith plays in many lives, for the vast majority it gives them hope and guidance, and who am I to take that away.


Excuse my limited understanding of the I Ching, but isn't its guidance couched in such a way that it is intended to make the user make their own decision (i.e. it doesn't say "go to the shops"; "burn a bible"; "make lasagne", etc).

In a way, it's similar to a creative block remover (say, Eno's Oblique Strategies cards) that really get you to think around a problem and then ultimately reach your own decision. I didn't think it was about "belief" or "faith" as such. Like I say though, not my area of expertise so feel free to correct.
Jane
Jane
3024 posts

Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 09:10
Resonox wrote:

No..I was referring to our"national institution"(as he is often called these days)..the sometimes comical...yet regularly pompous La Fry, who is promoting another book...so needs to be in the public eye.


I see. I don't know anything about Fry's new book.
*...goes off to find out more...*
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6219 posts

Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 09:30
The Eternal wrote:
Jane,

I think that your quote below says everything perfectly.

Jane wrote:

The reason he is so strident about it is because he (like me and millions of others) are FED UP to the back teeth with those who assert religious privilege. By pussy-footing around the believers in
cause offence, we prolong their unfair privilege.[/quote]

Totally agree,
Regards,
TE.


Yes, I think this nails it nicely.

[I feel rather similar about the attitude towards people without children though, to be honest! :-) Being a non-parent makes you a second class citizen in some people's eyes. Minor OT rant, sorry.]

I also take offence when those in the higher echelons of organised religions like catholicism are held up as "speaking for all 6m catholics in the UK" or whatever. Do they? Do all catholics genuinely agree 100% with the views espoused by their designated mouthpiece? I doubt it.

I live in a secular country, where we have a hereditary system of monarchy in which I have no say. Does this mean that the Queen speaks for me? Do I share her views? No. So how does the pope represent the views of all catholics?
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Edited Sep 24, 2010, 11:07
Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 10:04
Excuse my limited understanding of the I Ching, but isn't its guidance couched in such a way that it is intended to make the user make their own decision (i.e. it doesn't say "go to the shops"; "burn a bible"; "make lasagne", etc).

In a way, it's similar to a creative block remover (say, Eno's Oblique Strategies cards) that really get you to think around a problem and then ultimately reach your own decision. I didn't think it was about "belief" or "faith" as such. Like I say though, not my area of expertise so feel free to correct.


Spot on Mr t. The Richard Wilhelm translation has a forward by C G Jung that may be of interest. Writing in 1949 Jung points out that -

"The method of the I Ching does indeed take into account the hidden individual quality in things and men, and in one's own unconscious self as well. I have questioned the I Ching as one questions a person whom one is about to introduce to friends: one asks whether or not it will be agreeable to him. In answer the I Ching tells me of its religious significance, of the fact that at present it is unknown and misjudged, of its hope of being restored to a place of honor -- this last obviously with a sidelong glance at my as yet unwritten foreword, and above all at the English translation. This seems a perfectly understandable reaction, such as one could expect also from a person in a similar situation."

In other words Jung is projecting his conscious and subconscious onto the relatively simple answers the I Ching provides.
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6219 posts

Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 10:22
Littlestone wrote:
Excuse my limited understanding of the I Ching, but isn't its guidance couched in such a way that it is intended to make the user make their own decision (i.e. it doesn't say "go to the shops"; "burn a bible"; "make lasagne", etc).

In a way, it's similar to a creative block remover (say, Eno's Oblique Strategies cards) that really get you to think around a problem and then ultimately reach your own decision. I didn't think it was about "belief" or "faith" as such. Like I say though, not my area of expertise so feel free to correct.


Spot on Mr t. The Richard Wilhelm translation has a forward by C G Jung that may be of interest. Writing in 1949 Jung points out that -

"The method of the I Ching does indeed take into account the hidden individual quality in things and men, and in one's own unconscious self as well. I have questioned the I Ching as one questions a person whom one is about to introduce to friends: one asks whether or not it will be agreeable to him. In answer the I Ching tells me of its religious significance, of the fact that at present it is unknown and misjudged, of its hope of being restored to a place of honor -- this last obviously with a sidelong glance at my as yet unwritten foreword, and above all at the English translation. This seems a perfectly understandable reaction, such as one could expect also from a person in a similar situation."

In other words Jung is projecting his conscious and subconscious onto the relatively simple answers the I Ching provides.


Thanks LS, that makes sense.
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 11:39
nigelswift wrote:
I don't want to get into EH or NT bashing when so many in EH are threatened by the cuts but I hope one good thing at least comes from EH merging with the lottery fund - that they'll finally "get it" that they're guardians not proprietors.

(I reckon that's what's behind almost every criticism that's ever been levelled at either organisation since the year dot).


Sadly, as pointed out on the HA Journal, "Presumably, “rolling back of the state” can only mean one thing in the case of heritage and archaeology: spending less on protecting sites."

And that's not all, The Telegraph reports that, "...the future of the publicly funded National Museums and Galleries service, which offers the public free admission to some of the country’s best-known cultural venues, is still in doubt."

More here - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/8021739/Quango-cuts-177-bodies-to-be-scrapped-under-coalition-plans.html
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 24, 2010, 12:04
Jane wrote:
Resonox wrote:

No..I was referring to our"national institution"(as he is often called these days)..the sometimes comical...yet regularly pompous La Fry, who is promoting another book...so needs to be in the public eye.


I see. I don't know anything about Fry's new book.
*...goes off to find out more...*


I like Stephen Fry ... though for someone also funny and presumably thoroughly atheist you could try "Stalin ate my homework" by Alexei Sayle - might make a suitable un-xmas prezzie to yourself.
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