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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Votive offerings |
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Aug 31, 2009, 20:48
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Apologies if this is a bit off topic. The question of votive offerings left at places like the Swallowhead Spring and West Kennet Long Barrow has been discussed on TMA and elsewhere before. Heritage Action's recent feature on its Journal here - http://heritageaction.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/votive-offerings-and-dondo-yaki/ compares the Western, neo-pagan tradition of leaving offerings at places like the Swallowhead Spring and West Kennet Long Barrow with older, similar traditions in the Far East. "The leaving of ribbons, dolls, articles of clothing, crystals, t-lights, even food and drink, at such places is now generally frowned on and regarded by many as an unwelcome blot on the environment, or at the site of historic interest where they are left. There are, however, countries where the leaving of offerings in the form of ribbons, prayers written on paper which are then tied to the branches of trees or left at the base of stones, is commonplace and forms part of that country’s religion or cultural tradition." People will want, and will continue to leave, votive offerings at places which are important to them - satisfying some and infuriating others. What's the answer? The Heritage Action feature suggest that the Japanese Dondo Yaki ceremony, where votive offerings are burnt annually to herald in the New Year, might be one way round the problem - embracing the idea of votive offerings while at the same time encouraging people who leave them to either think a little more carefully before doing so or, if they do leave such offerings, to adopt a more responsible attitude to their later disposal.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 31, 2009, 20:56
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Littlestone wrote: Apologies if this is a bit off topic. The question of votive offerings left at places like the Swallowhead Spring and West Kennet Long Barrow has been discussed on TMA and elsewhere before. Heritage Action's recent feature on its Journal here - http://heritageaction.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/votive-offerings-and-dondo-yaki/ compares the Western, neo-pagan tradition of leaving offerings at places like the Swallowhead Spring and West Kennet Long Barrow with older, similar traditions in the Far East. "The leaving of ribbons, dolls, articles of clothing, crystals, t-lights, even food and drink, at such places is now generally frowned on and regarded by many as an unwelcome blot on the environment, or at the site of historic interest where they are left. There are, however, countries where the leaving of offerings in the form of ribbons, prayers written on paper which are then tied to the branches of trees or left at the base of stones, is commonplace and forms part of that country’s religion or cultural tradition." People will want, and will continue to leave, votive offerings at places which are important to them - satisfying some and infuriating others. What's the answer? The Heritage Action feature suggest that the Japanese Dondo Yaki ceremony, where votive offerings are burnt annually to herald in the New Year, might be one way round the problem - embracing the idea of votive offerings while at the same time encouraging people who leave them to either think a little more carefully before doing so or, if they do leave such offerings, to adopt a more responsible attitude to their later disposal. I quite like that .
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Aug 31, 2009, 22:00
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Difficult one this.... I like the fact that many of our ancient sites still have serious meaning for many people - judging by what I've seen with mine own eyes - and offer an alternative to 'establishment' religions. That, in other words, they are still relevant to the inhabitants of these islands after many millennia. If it works for you and no-one else is affected [which, let's face it, is not the case with the 'establishment' religions, which want to take over the world] why not take advantage? I must confess I haven't yet myself, but I certainly deeply enjoy being at the sites....... The trouble - I think - is when it stops being a personal thing, the leaving of small symbolic tokens - a coin left on an orthostat, a corn doll within a chamber, a ribbon on a nearby tree etc - and enters the realm of fashion, following trends, for want of better words. Like the student getting out the ouija board because he's so enlightened, man. Oh please! Devalues the whole thing. Possibly the most touching offering I've ever seen was a single red rose left at the Druid Temple.... such raw emotion in so simple an offering. Pure class, though I shudder at what that person may have been going through. Do we wish to stop things such as this? Don't think so. But the umpteen candles inside West Kennet? Hmm. Perhaps. The latter seems too orchestrated to me, the former an impulsive act of human expressive, non violent emotion. More of that, please.
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thesweetcheat 6219 posts |
Aug 31, 2009, 22:23
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Quite often get nice biodegradable foxgloves at the Cornish sites, usually at Midsummer when they're in season. Don't mind that, they soon go. But the trees festooned with clothes, etc - there were some big pants at Sancreed Well last November. Hmmm.
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Psychostevouk 35 posts |
Aug 31, 2009, 23:08
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I used to live in Japan and attended a few Dondo Matsuri's each year. The difference between what the article suggests and what happens in Japan, is that people take their own New Year decorations from their homes and burn them at the festival. It's a way of cleaning out their past year. People don't tend to leave these particular decorations anywhere. I've always kinda liked the tree on the path to West Kennet Long Barrow, it reminds me of wishes tied to trees at temples and shrines all across Japan.
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megadread 1202 posts |
Aug 31, 2009, 23:08
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i don't really mind a few berries, a flower, stalks of corn, poppies etc that you often find at sites, tea lights and other such tat, that's just litter imo. Best offering i've ever seen was a receipt for 99p at wklb. !
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Sep 01, 2009, 07:50
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Where it can be shown that the process started in the last 20 years it should be banned. Many wells in Irland have rag trees. They're great. When they're traditional. People now tie things to trees at stone circles. That's litter to me. The Irish tradition is to leave something that's close to the affected part of the body: a sock if you have a bad foot; a strip torn off your shirt for a chest problem etc. I once saw a tampon (unused) hanging from a tree at a holy well. Who knows what that lady was going through. More recently the offerings are getting 'commercial': little plastic Jesuses and suchlike. To me that's litter, even at traditional sites. I can't remember where it is, but there's one well that was known for cures to leg injuries. There was a stack of walking sticks and crutches beside it once, but they were all cleared away. This pile had been there for hundreds of years and probably went back much further. Leaving bits of plants with berries is highly irresponsible. It runs the risk of introducing foreign flora to a site, which could be invasive. I once found an open pot of honey in a tree at Castleruddery.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Edited Sep 01, 2009, 07:59
Sep 01, 2009, 07:56
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I used to live in Japan and attended a few Dondo Matsuri's each year. We have something in common :-) And you're quite right when you say, "...people take their own New Year decorations from their homes and burn them at the festival." I have seen votive offerings left in obscure places however, usually coins, pebbles or a few wild flowers; one of the scariest was a simple straw doll hanging from the branch of a tree in the eastern mountains of Kyoto - it had several wooden pins stuck through it. I also like the tree on the way to West Kennet. I've noticed recently that a couple of hawthorn bushes on the path up Waden Hill (from the Avenue) also have a few ribbons attached to them.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Sep 01, 2009, 09:37
Sep 01, 2009, 09:12
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"Where it can be shown that the process started in the last 20 years it should be banned." Hmmm, harsh but harsh Mr FW! I must say I get a bit peeved at the amount of academic and official leaning over backwards to "honour people's right to express their spirituality". What about those whose beliefs are transgressed and offended by the exercising of such rights? i.e. people that like to see sites without stuff left at them? I reckon that's a just as sincere and deeply held belief system as the other one and probably held by more people. Last week I went to Swallowhead Springs. It was garlanded in late summer flowers, perfect. Except there was lots of crap there, marring the perfection. Plus.... the 4 nearby huge sarsens which form stepping stones (and quite probably were a stone circle ploughed out of the adjacent field) were totally covered in chalk symbolism.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Sep 01, 2009, 10:50
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Last week I went to Swallowhead Springs. It was garlanded in late summer flowers, perfect. Except there was lots of crap there, marring the perfection. Yes, this is the problem isn't it. No-one seems to mind too much flowers, leaves, a pebble or a few small ribbons but when it escalates into plastic dolls, crystals and graffiti it does become intrusive. Perhaps by leaving only small, natural objects that will degrade fairly quickly in the open would be one answer.
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