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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Offerings at stones |
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Vicster 662 posts |
May 09, 2006, 15:27
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I think I get most annoyed at things left in fields where livestock are kept. Last time I was at Castlerigg, there was a floral tribute left as an offering; complete with florist foam and ivy - I'm not big on animal husbandry but I'm pretty sure that sheep don't eat ivy. Or foam. Or plastic. Or crystals. But I bet they try.....
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
May 09, 2006, 22:20
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Perhaps we sometimes forget how far down the megalithic road we are. Perhaps the 'Little Pony' stuffed into a tree was the cherished belonging of a child who had given it to that place, to that tree; perhaps it was among his or her most cherished possessions? I'm not sure either that I agree with, "The great contemporary pagan writer Gyrus..." that, "...when you arrive at a site clear it of all litter..." if litter in this context means 'offerings'. Why? because there's little doubt in my mind that the people who leave such 'offerings' don't see them as litter, and in my opinion to remove them is just displacing one belief system with another. Certainly, most of us here object to 'offerings' being left at places we care for because we know they can damage the site and offend those who come after. But let's not forget that there are people just starting out on their megalithic, pagan, spiritual, call-it-what-you-like journey; people just finding their way from the empty insanity of modern life. I'm not defending those who leave 'offerings' at megalithic sites, and I dislike seeing them as much as anyone else here, but I suspect most of the time such 'offerings' are done in a spirit of respect for the site and that's a start isn't it - something to build on perhaps? And if we've learnt anything at all, bantering this way and that on public forums such as this, is it not that we learn from one another and move forward a little with each lesson? And do we not have some responsibility to pass on what we learn to those just coming up rather than stomping on them for not doing it in quite the same way as we would like it to be done? Bet you this, the folks who leave 'offerings' at 'our' megalithic sites would probably be among those protesting if those sites were under serious threat (as many of them are) while the academics and incompetent bureaucrats continue to walk around with poles up their arses doing sweet F all. As for Kurt Vonnegut, who you quote as saying, "...that's another basic flaw in the human character; everyone wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance'. Let's do a little maintenance." Well, I've spent more than forty years 'maintaining' works of art to last for a few more years, saving them from the deity of inevitable decay for a little while longer, and for the pleasure and edification of mankind (and there are thousands of other conservators out there doing the same thing on a daily basis). Perhaps Vonnegut and his ilk have forgotten about us? Chuckle, still good to have an iconoclastic rant once in a while ;-)
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 09, 2006, 22:32
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Hmmm, I'm afraid I find it hard to share your belief in their naivity about the offence they cause to others, but I'm a less nice person I spose. I think they're selfish mostly and know damn well they're indulging their own wishes at my expense. Worse (and here's the really cynical me coming out) there's a bit of look at me I'm mysterious about a lot of it. Bah! Mousetraps in the nooks and crannies of stones, that's what we need.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
May 09, 2006, 22:38
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>Bah! Mousetraps in the nooks and crannies of stones, that's what we need.< Chuckle... you're getting grouchier and grouchier Nigel. Now, I want to see you with some flowers in your hair at the Megameet, two fingers up in the air (facing in the right direction of course) and walking around saying nothing more profound than, "That's cool man." ;-)
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 09, 2006, 22:56
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and walking around saying nothing more profound than, "That's cool man." Funnily enough, I've let my beard go too far lately and it led me to my first act of violence for 40 years. Some chavs at the next table started singing Jingle Bells at me.... As I left I walked past them and clipped the one's ear. At the same time I said "sorry" so I had a convincing denial strategy if required. Age brings wisdom, see. Ho ho ho.
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moss 2897 posts |
May 10, 2006, 05:45
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Actually I agree with a lot of what you said, as the person who came away furious at the "offerings"at Swallowhead, my temper became somewhat abated, and I wrote a somewhat different viewpoint to work out my feelings. There is "crap" there, but if other people are reaching out in there particular fashion, who are we to say what is right or wrong. Falling into that too predictable narrowminded patronising "nanny" state mode of converting everyone to our way of thinking. Time to duck!!
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CraigR 479 posts |
May 10, 2006, 16:58
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Thought I'd brought this up some years ago............ http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/1529
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BuckyE 468 posts |
May 10, 2006, 22:00
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Getting all wigged out at PHYSICALLY NONDESTRUCTIVE offerings is just being antisocial. It reminds me of the tourists who complain about having to endure tourists. (shrugging)
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 10, 2006, 22:09
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Getting all wigged out at PHYSICALLY NONDESTRUCTIVE offerings is just being antisocial. Had to look up wigged out in an American slang dictionary! Physically non-destructive isn't all of it surely? What about messing up the atmosphere and look of a place for others, albeit temporarily. That really wigs me.
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goffik 3926 posts |
May 11, 2006, 06:17
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> Getting all wigged out at PHYSICALLY NONDESTRUCTIVE offerings is just being antisocial. It reminds me of the tourists who complain about having to endure tourists. (shrugging) If only it were that simple... Get yerself along there and have a look at the state of Swallowhead Springs - a prime example at the moment - there's offerings, and there's offerings... Physically nondestructive? Well, they're not bombs or owt, but tying rocks to branches is quite destructive to the tree, as is leaving non-biodegradeable plastic stuff scattered about the place and wedged into the trunk. If it were left in the street, it wouldn't be called "offerings". It would be "litter". Offerings I've seen at other sites have been a lot more respectful. I think this wigging is justifiable. G x
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