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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Stonehenge » "achievABLE STONEHENGE" |
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VenerableBottyBurp 675 posts |
Feb 10, 2006, 14:21
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I did start this on Andy Worthington's thread about the roads, but as that thread needs airing and this is dislocating if not divorcing the subject of getting something done from the road I thought I should paste it up as a new topic. "achievABLE STONEHENGE" ! This may not be overly popular on this forum as it doesn't go far enough for what we had all hoped, but seeing as that will never happen we have to go for the lowest common denominator - the farthest we can push something with the majority support. The public simply want the present services removed and moderately upgraded leaving the site presentable without spending the sort of money that hospitals and schools are in far greater need of, and they do not want to wait until the 12th of Never for an unachievable consensus in respect of the road in order for these improvements to take place. Why not go for an "achievABLE STONEHENGE" - (leave the A303 road argument to one side as we will never ever get any agreement, then simply close the A344 and remove the tarmac back to the start of the present car park which can be reduced to a turning-circle for transporting disabled visitors. Remove the tunnel offices and shops, and create a reception area with car park of overlaid 'Ground Guard' north of a line drawn east from Airman's Corner. Stonehenge is ably supported by the Wiltshire Heritage Museum at Devizes and South Wilts Museum at Salisbury, it doesn't need a Visitor Centre or a Theme Park that is just a cash cow for you know who) ? VBB ************************************************** From Nigel Swift: Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes. I'd already picked up your mention of the slogan "achievable Stonehenge" from your use of it elsewhere and commented to someone how inspired it was. Here's the thing: It's absolutely vital that we all agree to this as a broad idea and not lose unity over minor details. I don't necessarily agree with every nuance of what you say, and the practicalities may well dictate a few changes, but everyone signing up for the broad concept is what matters. A few of us are working on it. There are some very strong and unifying cards in this. One of the strongest is the fact that £60 million on an interpretation centre is unnecessary, disproportionate and even crass, given the tiny size of the heritage pot. There are 1,000+ British Stone circles. Most get inspected by EH once every 7 years. How can that not be plain wrong? Let's stick together, keep it simple and wield some people power. **************************************************** From Jo-anne: Yes. I, like Nigel would also like to add some discussion but at a second level. For a first level I think it was very well said, and definitly speaks of a added quality value for Stonehenge as whole. Thanks VBB, ... a firm yes from me. ****************************************************
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Feb 10, 2006, 19:36
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>Stonehenge is ably supported by the Wiltshire Heritage Museum at Devizes and South Wilts Museum at Salisbury, it doesn't need a Visitor Centre or a Theme Park that is just a cash cow for you know who) ?< This whole debate is far too important to get bogged down in detail but I must respectfully disagree with you on the matter of Stonehenge being ably supported by the Wiltshire Heritage Museum at Devizes and the South Wiltshire Museum at Salisbury; excellent though those museums are they cater for people with the time to go to them, not the average visitor to Stonehenge (overseas visitors and school children in particular). Avebury is blessed with both a museum and a visitors' centre 'on site' though they attract only a small percentage of the actual number of visitors to the Avebury circle itself (please don't ask me to provide accurate figures there - the observation is made after many years sitting in and out of the Stones Restaurant watching how many people actually go into the Keiller Museum and the Great Barn compared to the number of people milling around the circle, gift shops and pub :-) Let's face it, Stonehenge is never going to be the silent sacred place many of us would like it to be - it's too well known and attracts too many people with not enough time to time to travel on to Devizes and Salisbury for more information. The bottom line is that we must try to recapture a little of the mystery of Stonehenge while providing the majority of its visitors with as much background information as possible during their short stay there.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Feb 10, 2006, 21:07
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I agree with you both ;) The museums are fantastic resources for those with the time and inclination, and don't need supplementing at fantastic cost. Equally, most people have neither time nor inclination so their needs don't need fulfilling at fantastic cost. If the imagination and ability to present Stonehenge to the typical two-hour visitor in a fantastic way within a budget of a million or two isn't available I'd eat my season ticket if I had one.
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VenerableBottyBurp 675 posts |
Feb 11, 2006, 12:07
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Good point to raise Littlestone, as you say we musn't get bogged in detail, but as this is interesting - the figures by the way are 450,000 estimated pa to Avebury at present, and the visitors to the AK museum were in 1997 fewer than the 14,000 that entered the Great Barn (Museum of Rural Life) I was told it was just over half that figure but I am not certain that was accurate. The visitors to the museum at Avebury when I was a volunteer ranged from a % entered because it was raining to some returning having seen Avebury and specifically came back to visit the museum. The average visitor stay at Stonehenge at present is less than 30 minutes - and it is EH's aim to increase that not just by forcing people through the visitor centre but using the land train, both of which I feel is wrong as the majority of people that visit Avebury do not even bother to visit WKLB let alone expand out into the surrounds. Taking this point together with the fact that entry numbers to the museums at Avebury, Devizes, and Salisbury have fallen drastically over the last decade - we must question what the public want from museums in the future, and whilst I have no objection (in truth it is my favourite solution) to the Wiltshire Heritage Museum moving to Stonehenge, what is it that we should tell the public when they get there. The trouble most museums find when forcing people through somewhere is the visitors spend all their time in the shop and not looking at the exhibits - that is a real sdanger at Stonehenge despite what EH says. Sorry this is jumbled as I am in a dash. VBB :0)
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Feb 11, 2006, 12:10
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That's one thing I like about the Bru na Boinne centre actually. The shop is downstairs and you don't have to go through it to enter or leave. In fact you can buy your ticket and visit the sites without even seeing the shop! Hats off to them for that. However, I wonder if they'd design it that way today?
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Feb 11, 2006, 13:01
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Alternatively you can visit the shop without ever having to see the real thing. Ideal for the visitor in a hurry.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Feb 11, 2006, 14:01
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Most people like to take away a tangible reminder of their visit to a museum or famous place, whether it's just a postcard or a guidebook, and 'official' gift shops tend to be fairly priced and the goods on sale of good quality. Replicas for example are now of such a high quality that they're hardly distinguishable from the originals (I don't mean full size replicas of Stonehenge :-) but the sort of replicas on sale at places like the British Museum gift shop (the Lewis Chess Set springs to mind). Interestingly, it was the Conservation Dept at the BM that pioneered the very high quality of replicas you can now buy at the gift shop there. There's quite a lot of other stuff going on behind the scenes at the big museum gift shops - the BM has its own publications department and not only publishes exhibition catalogues and books written by the curatorial staff but also prepares information packs for school children, gallery lectures, tours abroad etc. At the end of the day the visitor doesn't have to buy anything - but it's nice to have to option.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Feb 11, 2006, 14:17
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... it's nice to have to option. Indeed it is. At Dublin Zoo for instance you <i>have</i> to fight your way through the shop to leave! I've been to several other places where it's the same and it really pisses me off to be honest. I think any major visitor centre built now would not give you that choice simply due to the need to recoup some of the excessive costs involved in building things these days.
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PeterH 1180 posts |
Feb 11, 2006, 16:14
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At Sutton Hoo you can shop till you drop, view copies of goodies still at the BM, see a few genuine baubles, watch a film and never have to trek through the cold and the wet to see the real mounds at all - and most visitors never do. There is a viewing platform for the brave souls who do stagger that far, but the comments are inevitably ones of disappointment. " Where is the ship/treasure/gold/body/sword/helmet?" "They are just hills!" "Is that all there is?" That is why I don't want an OTT visitor centre at Stonehenge that will diminish the real thing.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Feb 11, 2006, 19:14
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Bet you'd have preferred to have left Sutton Hoo still in 'earth's grip' Peter ;-) But yes, I'd forgotten about Sutton Hoo - actually, it's the one place that springs to mind where the visitor centre <i>surpasses</i> the actual site. I trekked out to see the Sutton Hoo barrows one scorching hot day a couple of years ago - it's about half an hour there and back and there's no shade and no cover and I nearly fainted from the heat! Other than a few mounds in a field that's it. The visitor centre by comparison has an audio-video room where you can hear Old English being spoken; see a reconstruction of part of the boat and its interior; see both replicas and some of the original objects found within the barrow; take in various displays (a great one that I remember went into some detail on the superb quality of Anglo-Saxon steel - they'd developed the folded steel technique some six hundred years before Japanese swordsmiths managed it) and after all that I went for a nice cold drink in the adjacent NT restaurant. Sutton Hoo is not the Valley of the Kings (which is still worthwhile slogging out to see with or without a visitor centre). I'd say Stonehenge falls somewhere between the two. Every site is different and probably requires a different approach :-)
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