nigelswift
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Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 13:42
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Has anyone heard of piles of stones being found in the shape of boats - without nails amongst them, suggesting very early boats?
I know a few early bronze age boats have been found e.g. those in Dover and Derby museums but I'm wondering about hide covered ones or curraghs....
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Jane
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Re: Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 14:08
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Some of the megalithic monuments of Denmark and Sweden are boat shaped... but that's not what you mean, is it?
J
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fitzcoraldo
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Re: Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 14:57
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This mound, that has been tagged as a long barrow is curiously boat shaped.
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/5594
I guess the earliest boats to be found in Britian are the Ferriby boat and the Caldicot boat, both of which are Brinze Age in date and I believe were constructed using a sewn-plank method.
The earlist evidence in our islands for using boats is probably the carved oar discovered at the mesolithic site of Star Carr. I've read that the boats used there were probably similar to coracles or canoes. I guess the chances of finding evidence of a boat of this type of construction would be extremely slim due to the poor preservation properties of the materials involved.
I think I have read about antlers being found at a Mesolithic site in Europe that may have been used as ribs for in a canoe.
As for burials in coracle shape, I would imagine that a coracle was a pretty basic, low status sort of vessel and therefore may not be worthy of celebrating in a burial monument. A larger sea-going vessel, well that's another story.
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fitzcoraldo
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Re: Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 15:00
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Sorry Nigel,
I read coracle for curragh.
Curraghs are definitely sea-going vessels.
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PeterH
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Re: Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 15:00
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I cannot answer your specific question about Neolithic boat shaped cairns. As well as river craft and rafts (the Stonehenge bluestones), sea going boats must have existed in the Neolithic in order to bring domestic farm animals across from Europe (none but the pig are indigenous). Bronze Age boats seem to be the earliest we have excavated as far as I am aware.
Funny you should ask, Nigel, as I have just started some research into early boats( and overland trade routes also). There are 172 log-boats described in McGrail's "Logboats of England and Wales" published in 1978 and more have been found since then. Apparently the term "dug-out canoe" is no longer used. There are three large pieces of plank-built prehistoric boats from Britain – the amazing Dover boat ( EH's "Dover Bronze Age Boat") and two from the Humber (see E.V. Wright's "Ferriby Boats" Nat Maritime Museum 1972). The standard guide to plank-built boats seems to be McGrail & Kentley's "Sewn Plank Boats" Brit Arch No. 276, 1985). I do not know of any finds of early skin boats although we do have many fine rock engravings of these. Probably the best illustrations of prehistoric skin boats are those painted on rocks in Scandinavia (Greywether has put loads of excellent photos of these on the Portal). Denmark has recovered several early boats and they may be in the Roskilde Ship Museum.
There are a number of dug out boat or canoe shaped coffins from the Bronze Age, but it is not certain if they were intended to represent boats. Possibly, we just think they look like boats. Boat burials are mainly associated with the Saxons and Vikings of course. Sometimes these are actual buried boats (Sutton Hoo) but more often they are cairns of stones laid out in the shape of boats. There are numerous examples in Scandinavia, Isle of Man, Orkney and Shetland
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moss
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Re: Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 15:20
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Bedd Arthur is described as a peculiar stone setting not too far from the stone river under Carn Meini, hengiform, or henge with stone circle. Been described as somewhat similar to a viking boat grave, though this has now been discounted. Also Bedd yr Afanc, or the Grave of the Watery Monster, is long and narrowed shaped, thought to be a gallery grave, but the picture I have with the stones sticking out of the bog is very boatish.... Considering that trading between Ireland and Wales took place, and further trading into the West via sea and rivers, boat shaped graves might have been a possibility...
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fitzcoraldo
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Re: Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 16:06
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Here's a good 'un
http://www.hertsheritage.org.uk/transport/pkboat.htm
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FourWinds
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Re: Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 19:01
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>> I guess the earliest boats to be found in Britian are the Ferriby boat and the Caldicot boat,
TC Lethbridge suggests the Irish curragh, the umiak and the coracle are descendents of the boats used in the Neolithic. Once again I find opportunity to recommend <i>Boats and Boatmen</i> and <i>Coastwise Craft</i> by Lethbridge. Unlike many archaeos who have postulated about such stuff he was himself a well travlelled sailor and boats seemed to have been a very early interest of his.
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FourWinds
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Re: Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 19:04
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I believe I know where there's a boat cairn in Northern Ireland. Oddly enough no one who can do anything about getting it recognised will ake the idea seriously.
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StoneLifter
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Re: Neolithic boats
Nov 19, 2005, 19:53
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Is this boat-shaped or one with a burnt boat beneath it ?
To make matters worse I believe there is a class of cupmarks - presently being dispelled as 'quarrymarks' - that are specifically boat-shaped. Boats were the vans and wagons of then, probably.
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