fitzcoraldo
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Calling RombaldII
Jun 19, 2005, 20:10
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hello RombaldII
Can I ask why you are writing all over the carved rocks of West Yorkshire with chalk?
e.g. http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/38048
It really is very unattractive and not at all helpful as you are imposing your interpretation of the carvings on others.
I also believe that this kind of interference with a scheduled monument may not be very legal.
Could you please reconsider before doing it again.
Why not sketch the rocks and add your interpretation of the carvings and then post your sketches on TMA? It only takes 10 minutes to sketch an outline and then add the carvings.
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RombaldII
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Re: Calling RombaldII
Jun 19, 2005, 20:33
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Because it is childrens chalk which will have been washed off already by the first rain of which we have lots on Rombalds moor.
A simple photo does not show what is there.
I am following the methods used be Boughey et al as described in Prehistoric Rock Art of the West Riding p121. I may try to get the high tech version of chalk described there described
There is absolutely no way anyone will find these roocks without a GPS and a rough idea of what they are looking for. I have stood on top of a rock found with a GPS and wondered where that damn rock is until Uven with PRAWR in my hand, I have had to think hard about what I was looking at.
RombaldII
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Hob
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Re: Calling RombaldII
Jun 19, 2005, 22:53
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Helloah RombaldII,
Whilst I can appreciate that the carvings on these stones can be ambiguous, and that as such, it can be helpful to try to highlight them in some way, I also share Fitzcoraldo's misgivings about the use of chalk to do so.
As far as I'm aware, the jury is still out regarding the effects of chalk in terms of potential damage to carvings. But even supposing it's not damaging, if you have any qualms about chalking, want to share your own interpretation of the motifs and aren't wanting to do all that drawing stuff, you could try a bit of water and a soft paintbrush.
Paint the designs on and then photograph them. It seems like most of the stones you're looking at are fairly pale, so a bit of judiciously applied water should bring those patterns out a treat, without leaving any trace after a half an hour or so.
Whilst you might think that the chances of anyone lugging themselves all the way up there to look at a vaguely carved rock are remote, GPS or no GPS, you'd be surprised. Lotsa folk look at what's posted on tma without leaving any sign of having done so (i.e. posting stuff), some of them even then get up and go a-wandering amongst the stones. Damage/aesthetic issues aside, when someone does follow in your footsteps to a bit of obscure rock art, it's kinda nicer for them to find an un-chalked stone, allowing them to arrive at their own interpretation of the motifs carved up it.
I'm sure you get my point. That's my half-a-bronze-oxhide's worth, so I'll shut me trap.
Regards,
Hob
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rockartuk
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Re: Calling RombaldII
Jun 19, 2005, 23:00
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Hi RombaldII
I coudn't believe my eyes when I saw your picutures of the "marked" stones.
This practice was abandoned 30 years ago for all the good reasons.
Chaulking-in the motifs is on top of every "don't"-list when it comes to the recording of prehistoric rock art.
It is sending out a very wrong message; what you do with (childern's) chaulk, could be easily done with crayons or, even worse, with paint.
Here are some points to consider:
- go when the sun is low;
- spray a little water when there is no sunlight;
- only brush away with a soft brush what the wind should blow away;
- leave the motifs as you found them.
Therefore I ask you strongly to stop this way of recording our already vulnerable prehistoric heritage.
Regards,
Jan Brouwer
"Rock Art in the British Landscape"
www.rockartuk.tk
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Hob
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Re: Calling RombaldII
Jun 19, 2005, 23:08
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Not quite shut me trap yet ;)
This is what I mean. Taking a panel in Northumberland as an example.
Without water: http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/37065
With water: http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/38063
This shows my attempt to reconcile what's on the outcrop with what's in the literature.
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Rockrich
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Re: Calling RombaldII
Jun 20, 2005, 08:22
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RombaldII, many thanks for your photos of the carvings on Rombalds Moor. Its good to see different ones other than the usual suspects.
However, I agree with the others about a chalking, it doesn't look that pretty & we want to limit any potential damage to the carvings. Boughey & Vickerman also state in PRAWR, "The use of chalk is now no longer recommended because of the possible mechanical and chemical damage to the carved surface". Their book took 10yrs to pull together so I'm sure their methods changed over that period.
I am currently surveying the carvings in PRAWR, I think I've logged about 200 so far & I know if I came across chalking it would take away my enjoyment of the carving. As Jan has suggested water & light positioning works wonders for picking up the carvings pattern.
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rocknicker
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Re: Calling RombaldII
Jun 20, 2005, 08:33
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I am SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED by this
I personally would like to say how completely SHOCKED I am at this.
Did I mention I am SHOCKED?
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rocknicker
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Re: Calling RombaldII
Jun 20, 2005, 08:35
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PS RombaldII If I EVER see you or anyone else chalking stones in this way, well... I am speechless. GGGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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wolfnighthunter
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Re: Calling RombaldII
Jun 20, 2005, 10:42
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I must agree with the opinions of everyone else, chalking the rock art was something that was done along time ago before we knew what the effects on the stone were. Now we know better, we all want to see the RA, that is why we do it, but we must realise that we also have to look after it, where possible to extent its life for future generations. Even when we use water, brushes etc we need to be careful, anything that makes contact with the rock surface is damaging it. So please be careful when doing anything with the rock art.. and NO CHALKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please follow the instructions from Jan in his reply.
An example of how delicate rock art can be,..
In 1967, R morris uncovered a panel at Kirkmabreck , Dumfries and Galloway. The panel had nice rings, but within 5 years of the panel being exposed the southern ring was gone, weathered off. As a result Morris recovered the panel to protect for further generations.
So everyone please take care with our precious rock art, just because its rock, doesn't mean you can do anything to it you want.
Wolfnighthunter (Brian "Blokey" Kerr)
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wolfnighthunter
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Re: Calling RombaldII
Jun 20, 2005, 10:47
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I don't like the NUMBERS written on the panels either.....
DON'T DO IT!
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